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Al'akir HC(10)

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Al'akir HC(10)

Postby Técaro » Thu Mar 31, 2011 2:02 pm

So...is the damage massive in P1 or are we doing something wrong? Currently using 3 camps of people.
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Re: Al'akir HC(10)

Postby Belloc » Thu Mar 31, 2011 2:30 pm

Camps of 3 are not a good idea on heroic.

Unfortunately, I don't know any good ideas on heroic, because the fight sucks balls. The only thing I can say is spread out as much as possible, have as much healing coverage as possible, and make all of your players get the Tol Barad tank trinket... the use effect is huge when you get in a bad situation.
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Re: Al'akir HC(10)

Postby PsiVen » Thu Mar 31, 2011 6:26 pm

We've been getting people to work on their TB trinkets for Nef, but I can see how they would come in handy here too. We've had about 45 attempts so far, and our best were 2 times with only 2 deaths in P1 and a BR letting us 9-man it for a while. P1 has been getting noticeably smoother with practice, so I'm hopeful about nailing this tonight. Here's what we're working with:

Each Lightning Strike covers exactly 1/8 of the platform, and there are 4 up at once (2 sets of 2) for several seconds before the first 2 fade. It's targeted and centered on players, and it can and will strike the same spot twice, even if they're alone. Because it's highly likely to get trapped by lightning and be unable to get out of it, you actually need people to stand in the lightning and get hit by it whenever it's safe to do so (never two people in one strike ofc, and never in double-strikes).

Because of the mana concerns and survival concerns in P1, it's a 4-healer fight. I haven't found any videos or logs of people successfully 3-healing it but I imagine they would have to get plain lucky in P1 whereas with 4 healers you should be able to outplay every bad situation in P1 with proper reaction to what's going on.

One thing we've definitely caught onto is that the positions are not equal, and you can use these to arrange your raid and put your most mobile people where they need to be. In P1, I identify 8 distinct regions when tanking the boss facing SSW:
- The tank has the easiest spot and is farthest from the squall lines, with blizzards constantly spawning in spots that you can sidestep around and plenty of CDs to survive bad situations.
- Directly behind the boss is the next easiest spot, as blizzards rarely reach here at all and the squall lines spawn far away.
- Flank spots left and right behind the boss have it relatively easy as well, as blizzards rarely reach there but the squall lines spawn close by.
- Directly to the sides of the boss can be tricky, as the squall lines spawn there and blizzards usually end up there at bad times.
- Flank spots left and right of the tank are the nastiest, with double blizzards constantly running straight through and squall lines spawning nearby. Only highly mobile healers are likely to survive here, even by themselves.
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Re: Al'akir HC(10)

Postby dukka » Fri Apr 01, 2011 1:26 am

We have constant debates over the tb trinkets, are they worth the dps loss or not.

We ended up not using them on neither al'akir or nef, only the tank(s).

Al'akir can be three healed, the fastest kills on worldoflogs are three healed, but I probably wouldn't recommend it, it'll make p2 faster, and from tries where we had a dead healer going into p2, it's not _that_ much harder to heal for 3 healers for a long while, but p1 is a lot safer with 4 healers.

In our experience the side to the left of the tank is the worst/ hardest, put your best healer there.

We have 9 positions, that seems to work better for us than 10 or 8, but if you have multiple very mobile or high dr players, stack them up.

going clockwise from tank we have:

tank - healer - dps - dps - healer - (dps & dps, they stack) - healer - dps - healer

if there's peace and quiet at your spot otherwise (as in, your healer isn't stressed), by all means just eat the lightning, if the healer is stressed or running, it's worth risking moving out of lightning.

p1 is just brutal, p2 is all about stacking the debuff, once you can do that reliably you're through, and p3 is really quite easy, a paragon'ish way of moving works really well, stack at his head, move down on clouds 3 times, then all the way down, and up on clouds 3 times, all the way up, repeat.

at some point, it will get better with p1, honestly :) but learning it, man...
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Re: Al'akir HC(10)

Postby PsiVen » Sun Apr 03, 2011 2:59 pm

Yeah, in our attempts we proved that we could handle OTing the adds on a DPS DK while 3healing it (4th healer dead from P1) all the way to 30% before people started dying during Time Warp at 17 stacks of Acid Rain. We've successfully pushed into P3 multiple times now, but only with 1-3 people alive. I guess the ideal strategy would be to have some kind of hybrid spec resto druid/shaman spamming lightning/wrath for much of P2, but I don't know how much actual DPS contribution they would bring since they would be healing more as the damage debuff increases.

Our DK noted a pattern in the logs he's looked into where guilds tend to 4heal if they have the MT tank the adds, and 3heal if they have a DPS OT the adds, presumably because the latter is easier to heal but reduces DPS. However, I'm not sure I'm convinced that using a DPS to OT the adds actually reduces RDPS very much:

Pros of OTing adds
- Electrocute is not life threatening to MT every time he has to run out for a squall line gap, results in less burst healing needed during healer movement
- Tank damage is distributed between 2 players instead of focused on one, enabling more efficient healing
- Add aggro is a nonissue as the person doing most of the damage is also responsible for threat and killing blows

Cons of OTing adds
- Requires a DPS DK/war/feral, and only DKs are ideal as they can reset Acid Rain and Death Grip new adds straight out of the ranged pile
- Additional physical damage dealt by adds requires more total healing

Nonfactors of OTing adds
- You 'lose' DPS because the multiplier on Al'Akir affects the MT's damage instead of the OT's, but you must deal the same amount of damage to the adds anyway so other DPS just have to compensate.

So really, the only reason not to OT adds seems to be if you don't have someone who can do it, or at least don't have someone who can reset their stacks while your MT can (it's significant that whoever tanks adds is able to avoid having high Acid Rain stacks with +25% Nature debuffs too). Another good reason would be if you have a warrior MT who can Heroic Leap over the squall lines and never take any electrocution damage -- I wouldn't have believed this worked, but it seemed to be at least one guild's strategy for their kill video.
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Re: Al'akir HC(10)

Postby dukka » Sun Apr 03, 2011 3:17 pm

it's really not _that_ bad to put it all on the mt in p2, particularly if it's a paladin

we have me (paladin) tanking it all, and a hunter killing them off in time

I gather up 3, then the hunter kills them one at a time 1 sec before the debuff falls off the boss, I do as much aoe as a can to dps them down

it's only really nasty when you have to run far out while an add is spawning, otherwise it's quite manageable

tb trinket is godly

I'd definately recommend just having the adds on mt, you have a boatload of cooldowns if you have to run out, dp, trinket, ad, goak, bubble on 8-9 stacks because yea, 17 is around the point where we die as well
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Re: Al'akir HC(10)

Postby gomashon » Mon Apr 04, 2011 5:28 am

3 healers instead of 4 make this fight much easier, except for phase 1.
However phase 1 is short with 6 dps and can be over before the third wind burst (or soon after, depend on your DPS).
usually deaths in phase 1 come from "combos" like blizzard + wind burst + lightning etc, so making phase 1 very short is also helpful.
If you are progressing on this you will wipe in phase 1 many times, but once your healers learn to not hold back, pop everything to make it into p2 then its not too bad. Phase 2 and phase 3 become easier with so much dps, even if you happen lose a bit of the alakir debuffs and even if you don't have many people who can reset their own debuff.
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Re: Al'akir HC(10)

Postby PsiVen » Mon Apr 04, 2011 3:28 pm

Probably an insane idea, but I wonder if it would be doable to Heroism P1 with 3 healers and CD an electrocute to prevent even the second Wind Burst from casting. It would make P2 tight, but not as tight as 4-healing and you'd never wipe in P1 again.
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Re: Al'akir HC(10)

Postby gomashon » Tue Apr 05, 2011 1:30 am

can hero in p1 and still make it in p2 just fine, this probably will mean you won't be able to afford to lose Al'akir stacks in p2 or need to do what many guilds did for their kill - stack classes with immunity to clear the dot.
if you can manage only 1 wind burst with hero i dunno, depends how good is your dps, probably not, easy to test.
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Re: Al'akir HC(10)

Postby PsiVen » Tue Apr 05, 2011 4:56 am

Well, we've made it to P2 in good shape a dozen times or so now, but can't seem to put out enough DPS. Heroism goes up just before the 9th stack, Feedback fades after 10 stacks, and the boss is at 30-35% when people start falling over at 16-17 stacks of Acid Rain.

I guess we're going to find out whether we can pull off the crazy plan. In theory, the Heroism alone should compensate for most of the healing throughput we'll lose, but this will cost us 20 seconds in P2. At this point I'd be thrilled to have 3 attempts in a row where we die horribly late in P2, so...


Update: Well, 3 healing turned out to be pretty much impossible for us. We wasted a couple hours on it before returning to 4-healing, and after an hour of that we started to click again and found that we could get up to 12 Feedback with better add timings and could survive even longer with better mana management. Ran out of time or we would have killed it :(
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Re: Al'akir HC(10)

Postby Ilz » Thu Apr 07, 2011 2:17 pm

Someone should draw a picture of ideal positions for phase 1. How do most of you guys deal with the stormlings? Does the tank grab them and tank them on the side or would a melee DPS handle that duty?
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Re: Al'akir HC(10)

Postby Brutalus » Fri Apr 08, 2011 4:51 am

Ilz wrote:How do most of you guys deal with the stormlings? Does the tank grab them and tank them on the side or would a melee DPS handle that duty?


I just take the boss and the stormlings about 10/15 yards to the right of the raid and a hunter kills them off with me helping to finish them if needed.
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Re: Al'akir HC(10)

Postby Strendarr » Mon Apr 11, 2011 1:06 pm

PsiVen wrote: Another good reason would be if you have a warrior MT who can Heroic Leap over the squall lines and never take any electrocution damage -- I wouldn't have believed this worked, but it seemed to be at least one guild's strategy for their kill video.



Do you have a link to the video of that warrior leaping like that? After reading this I tried it out myself and after I landed on the far side of the squall line I got sucked laterally into it, resulting in an embarassing wipe.
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Re: Al'akir HC(10)

Postby Xenix » Mon Apr 11, 2011 9:16 pm

While healing this fight, I noticed something useful:

The debuff that makes you take damage from the blizzards is a movement-impairing effect (duh!). However, that means if you have an ability making you immune to said effects, such as Hand of Freedom or Master's Call, you can sit in the frost patch without taking damage as long as the buff is up.

With how much damage the frost does if you have to sit in it for a tornado gap, this will save a ton of damage if used properly on yourself or someone else.
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Re: Al'akir HC(10)

Postby Ilz » Mon Apr 11, 2011 10:10 pm

Finally downed him about an hr ago. 3 healing it is the best way to go. Get through phase 1 before the 3rd wind burst or immediately after.

Use hero/lust at around 5-6-7 stacks of feedback. Save things like tranq/divine hymn for 13+ stacks of acid rain. Phase 3 is just too easy.

Positioning used:
Image

The healer south west, left of the tank needs to be very mobile + good. That spot is hit pretty hard in terms of RNG :P
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