Weapon Enchants

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Re: Weapon Enchants

Postby bldavis » Mon Feb 21, 2011 7:44 pm

d503 wrote:
PsiVen wrote:My eyes actually begin to bleed when I see a prot paladin with Hurricane on their weapon.


Yeah, this day and age I can't imagine that Hurricane does more to increase threat than a Weapon Chain for someone under hitcap (read: most of us).

and that is why i said the weapon chain in teh first place!
see its such a wonderful circle we did there
lol
sorry couldnt help myself
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Brekkie:Tanks are like shitty DPS. And healers are like REALLY distracted DPS
Amirya:Why yes, your penis is longer than his because you hit 30k dps in the first 10 seconds. But guess what? That raid boss has a dick bigger than your ego.
Flex:I don't make mistakes. I execute carefully planned strategic group wipes.
Levie:(in /g) It's weird, I have a collar and I dont know where I got it from, Worgen are kinky!
Levie:Drunk Lev goes and does what he pleases just to annoy sober Lev.
Sagara:You see, you need to *spread* the bun before you insert the hot dog.
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Re: Weapon Enchants

Postby Kelaan » Tue Feb 22, 2011 1:17 pm

d503 wrote:Yeah, this day and age I can't imagine that Hurricane does more to increase threat than a Weapon Chain for someone under hitcap (read: most of us).


From Theckhd's thread:
https://sites.google.com/site/matlabadi ... nchant.png

Hurricane did (in 4.0.3) more DPS and TPS than weapon chains, even if you were NOT hit capped. (And Avalanche does even more.) In 4.0.6, I suppose the holy power losses from missed attacks is significant, so we'll need to wait for Theckhd's new calculations.
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Re: Weapon Enchants

Postby Weebey » Mon Mar 07, 2011 2:12 pm

Long time reader, first time poster.

Sorry to necro this thread, but I had a question for Tlitp about Mending. I get around 5-6 PPM (which is consistent with the numbers posted on the first page) with an average heal (including crits) of around say 1000 HP. This gives around 80-100 HPS. However, in the link you have Mending doing 200+ HPS. Does the heal from mending scale with vengeance? I didn't think enchants like this worked in that manner, but I'll have to check logs after my next raid boss.

Anyway, thanks in advance for the help.
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Re: Weapon Enchants

Postby tlitp » Tue Mar 08, 2011 7:27 am

Weebey wrote:(...) I had a question for Tlitp about Mending. I get around 5-6 PPM (...) (I)
(...) with an average heal (including crits) of around say 1000 HP. (II)
However, in the link you have Mending doing 200+ HPS. (III)
Does the heal from mending scale with vengeance? (IV)

I+III.
  • the original example was an implementation of the 4.0.3 mechanics; from 4.0.6. onwards there will be less finishers (at low hit/exp), corresponding to a slightly lower PPM
  • the output values were a. averaged (infinite-length encounter), b. assuming 0 overheal, c. assuming full buff/debuff coverage, d. assuming full time-on-target (both for the player and the target), e. assuming perfect execution (no lag, no reaction time, no tricks such as delayed finishers)
All things considered, what you're seeing here is a good example of the F/S dichotomy. We prefer to stick to F approaches whenever feasible, so the end output replicating a given scenario isn't our main concern. Alternatively worded, we prioritize relative scales (don't stick to Avalanche's A DPS or Landslide's B DPS, as these values are but a function of how the setup/computation is performed; instead, you'll want to know that, under a ceteris paribus basis, Landslide has a X% lead).
II. It's a hair under 1000, even with 2/2 Divinity. The correction factor for crits is ~1.05, using typical Prot gear and assuming full buff coverage.
IV. Mending doesn't scale with AP or SP.
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Re: Weapon Enchants

Postby snrfrito » Wed Mar 30, 2011 12:06 am

I've been looking for a solid replacement for Mending for some time now. The Wind enchant just isn't an option at this point as there are no Maelstrom crystals to be found on the AH, and, besides, I'm not willing to slap something that expensive on a blue weapon, anyhow. So, at the mention in this thread of using Blade Ward, I decided to give it a go. I've been having a real tough time on my own gauging it's effectiveness, however, so I've decided to link you folks a recent raid log of ours (see character: Rhyea, Paladin): http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/p83w80nd799da2ec/

I really am at a loss as to how you would ascertain Blade Ward's effectiveness versus another enchant like Mending other than working the math. Sadly, although I'm fairly decent at diff. eq... I'm absolutely terrible at statistics and probability. Anyhow, that said, I can see from the logs that Blade Warding did in fact proc a good number of times (108) during the raid, with a relatively low up-time 7.7%, overall. As to whether or not the added parry from the chant actually provided for the parry that allowed for the proc, I don't know.

Anyone able to take a crack at the numbers to determine its effectiveness? I'd be willing to give it a shot myself if provided a little direction. (And, by the way, I did search around on both the EJ forums and Tankspot for the said math backing up the claim that Blade Ward is better than Mending and I couldn't find a single peep.)
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Re: Weapon Enchants

Postby tlitp » Wed Mar 30, 2011 4:31 am

snrfrito wrote:(...) a recent raid log of ours (see character: Rhyea, Paladin): parse

Code: Select all
TAC kill
eligible triggers : 230 (53 CS, 17 SotR, 13 AS, 27 J, 27 JotJ, 79 AA)
observed applications : 12
@0.5 PPM : 4.9833 mean, 2.2080 stdev, 3.18 stdev away from mean
@1 PPM : 9.9667 mean, 3.0878 stdev, 0.66 stdev away from mean

Cho'gall #7
eligible triggers : 221 (59 CS, 16 SotR, 13 AS, 27 J, 27 JotJ, 93 AA)
observed applications : 8
@0.5 PPM : 4.7883 mean, 2.1644 stdev, 1.48 stdev away from mean
@1 PPM : 9.5767 mean, 3.0268 stdev, 0.52 stdev away from mean

It seems that BW is still 1 PPM, but a proper test is needed.
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Re: Weapon Enchants

Postby snrfrito » Wed Mar 30, 2011 5:06 pm

Interesting stuff, tlitp--I'll give it a go tonight, and edit this post with a link to the combatlog.

Edit: Here ya go,

Weapon: Brunnhildar Great Axe with Blade Ward
Physical Haste: 0.00%
Duration: 58min 54sec
Blade Warding Procs: 71, 19.4% uptime
Parse link: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/2uxyqwq5h86jjl99/

I performed this largely in my tanking gear with Ret pieces added to reach hit and expertise caps on a lvl 80 target (the level of dummy used). If necessary, I can repeat the parse in Ret gear with talents modified to prevent any haste buff proc in excess of that on my gear.
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