Riddle me this, Batman....

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Riddle me this, Batman....

Postby sherck » Fri Mar 18, 2011 6:31 am

Two Item Level 346 necks.

Acorn of the Daughter Tree, rep vendor at Revered from Guardians of Hyjal
252 Stamina
168 Agility
116 Mastery
107 Haste

The Lustrous Eye, JP vendor for 1,250 Justice Points
252 Stamina
168 Strength
112 Mastery
112 Dodge

Every guide I see says the Lustrous Eye is the better piece. But by my understanding.

AotDT:
169 Agility turns into 126 Dodge rating due to a 75% conversion factor
107 Haste turns into 42 Dodge rating from reforging
So, this piece ends up with 116 Mastery rating and an equivalent 168 Dodge rating

TLE:
168 Strength turns into 42 Parry rating due to a 25% conversion factor
So, this piece ends up with 112 Mastery rating and an equivalent 112 Dodge, 42 Parry rating

116 Mastery, 168 Avoidance rating plus some left over Haste rating.
-- vs --
112 Mastery, 164 Avoidance rating plus some threat from the Strength. And since threat is not a factor...

What am I missing?

Cheers,
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Re: Riddle me this, Batman....

Postby maulall » Fri Mar 18, 2011 7:03 am

Isn't the conversion from agility to dodge 60% and not 75%? Not positive, but I believe that is the correct number.

edit: found the link it is actually 60.9% according to this: http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.com/ ... ic#p635975
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Re: Riddle me this, Batman....

Postby sherck » Fri Mar 18, 2011 7:27 am

maulall wrote:Isn't the conversion from agility to dodge 60% and not 75%? Not positive, but I believe that is the correct number.


Ack, it would appear you are correct. I had seen the 75% conversion number in a couple of different places but this thread:

http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.com/ ... ic#p635161

appears to nail the conversion down to a 60.9% ratio.

That would be my issue. Thanks!

Cheers,
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Re: Riddle me this, Batman....

Postby sherck » Fri Mar 18, 2011 7:58 am

However, I have another gearing "issue." Note that I am at 90.5% CTC with HS up so am no where near block-capped.

Legguards of the Winnowing Wind
454 Stamina
262 Strength
185 Mastery rating
167 Critical Strike Rating
Red Socket, Yellow Socket, 20 Mastery socket bonus

Greaves of Splendor
454 Stamina
210 Strength
262 Dodge rating
113 Hit rating
Yellow Socket, Blue Socket, 30 Stamina socket bonus

I am not going to include the leg armor enchant for my calcuations since they are identical for both pieces.

LotWW:
Socket a Defender's Demonseye in the red socket and a Puissant Dream Emerald in the Yellow socket. With bonus, gems = 60 Stamina, 40 Mastery rating, 20 Parry rating.
262 Strength converts into 65 Parry rating at a 25% conversion ratio
167 Crit rating is reforged into 67 Dodge rating.
New Stats on this piece are:
514 Stamina, 262 Strength, 225 Mastery rating, 152 Avoidance rating plus some threat (crit) rating

GoS:
Socket 2 Puissant Dream Emeralds into both the Yellow and Blue sockets. With bonus, gems = 90 Stamina, 40 Mastery rating.
210 Strength converts into 53 Parry rating at a 25% conversion ration
133 Hit rating is reforged into 53 Mastery rating
New Stats on this piece are:
544 Stamina, 210 Strength, 93 Mastery rating, 315 Avoidance rating plsu some threat (hit) rating

CTC Coverage:
80 Mastery rating = 1% Block
179 Dodge/Parry rating = 1% avoidance (before DR)

So, given the above, these two pieces:

514 Stamina, 2.81% Block, 0.85% Avoidance (total CTC = 3.66%)
----vs----
544 Stamina, 1.16% Block, 1.76% avoidance (total CTC = 2.92%)

For a part time tank trying to get somewhat near block-capped, what do I shoot for? As much CTC as possible or higher avoidace? To me, the H VP legs look pretty superior to the JP legs which everyone says are the best 346 pair out there.

What am I missing?

Cheers,
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Re: Riddle me this, Batman....

Postby theckhd » Fri Mar 18, 2011 8:10 am

Well, for starters it's 0.25*1.05=0.2625, or 26.25% parry rating per point of Strength. Not that that changes much. :P

I prefer to go with "pure" tank gear personally, but if you can get your hands on the heroic VP legs they're a decent substitute.

I tend to look at total "survivability" rating, i.e. mastery+avoidance, rather than combat table coverage. LotWW has a sum of 377 effective rating (225+152), while the GoS have 408 plus ~30 more stamina pre-kings. On the other hand, LotWW's rating comes in a much more attractive form. I'd call it a toss-up, but I use the tier tanking legs rather than the ret ones, so what do I know?
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Re: Riddle me this, Batman....

Postby Aerron » Fri Mar 18, 2011 8:22 am

sherck wrote:However, I have another gearing "issue." Note that I am at 90.5% CTC with HS up so am no where near block-capped.
Cheers,


Just a small note here ... you do realize that Holy Shield does nothing for CTC, yes? I'm wondering if you just were thinking of something else when you wrote this and didn't come across clearly.

Holy Shields function is to increase the amount of DAMAGE blocked, not the amount of times one blocks.
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Re: Riddle me this, Batman....

Postby sherck » Fri Mar 18, 2011 10:30 am

Aerron wrote:
sherck wrote:However, I have another gearing "issue." Note that I am at 90.5% CTC with HS up so am no where near block-capped.
Cheers,


Just a small note here ... you do realize that Holy Shield does nothing for CTC, yes? I'm wondering if you just were thinking of something else when you wrote this and didn't come across clearly.

Holy Shields function is to increase the amount of DAMAGE blocked, not the amount of times one blocks.


Hmmmmmm, no. Lol, and this is why I am a part time tank. :oops:

Nope, really did think that HS provided 10% chance to block rather than raising the amount blocked. Apparently, I need to read a little closer.

Thanks for pointing that out to me. I was wondering why the heck tanks were approaching block cap in the first tier of the xpac.

Cheers,
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Re: Riddle me this, Batman....

Postby Shoju » Fri Mar 18, 2011 11:53 am

We are still closing in on block cap pretty early. I'm at 82%, and I still have sizable upgrades coming in CTC coverage.

With using just 359 gear, I can crank my CTC up to 89.37% while wearing a stamina trinket, or 93.39% wearing double mastery trinkets. That is pretty close to cap in the first tier.


Quick Edit.

I just did a check and if you sold your soul to Mastery in 372 gear (bis for mastery in every slot between 359/372) you can get to 99.05% CTC with 155k unbuffed HP. Probably not enough HP for most things Heroic Content wise, but oh holy crap. (this is also picking up all socket bonuses. )

Quick Edit 2.
Under the same scenario, a BS/JC could get to 101.07

Quick Edit 3.
Toss in the Sinestra neck, and you can then get to 102.1

http://chardev.org/?profile=79496
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Re: Riddle me this, Batman....

Postby xstrykr » Wed Mar 23, 2011 1:17 pm

sherck wrote:Nope, really did think that HS provided 10% chance to block rather than raising the amount blocked. Apparently, I need to read a little closer.

Thanks for pointing that out to me. I was wondering why the heck tanks were approaching block cap in the first tier of the xpac.

Cheers,


For the record, HS was changed at 4.0.3a to be 10% more damage blocked rather than 10% higher chance to block.

But yeah, stacking Mastery like it's not going out of style and it's very possible to get close to full CTC... I'm nowhere close to it, but then again I really only started raiding full time again about six weeks ago, and the drops I've gotten haven't increased my numbers all that much.
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Re: Riddle me this, Batman....

Postby baleogthefierce » Wed Mar 23, 2011 1:31 pm

xstrykr wrote:
sherck wrote:Nope, really did think that HS provided 10% chance to block rather than raising the amount blocked. Apparently, I need to read a little closer.

Thanks for pointing that out to me. I was wondering why the heck tanks were approaching block cap in the first tier of the xpac.

Cheers,


For the record, HS was changed at 4.0.3a to be 10% more damage blocked rather than 10% higher chance to block.

But yeah, stacking Mastery like it's not going out of style and it's very possible to get close to full CTC... I'm nowhere close to it, but then again I really only started raiding full time again about six weeks ago, and the drops I've gotten haven't increased my numbers all that much.


Factor in ~3% avoidance from raid buffs and 315 additional mastery rating from food/elixir and it is easily possible to push your CTC past 102.4%. There are a few key pieces that give you giant chunks of mastery (or a stat that you can reforge into mastery) such as the Atramedes legs, Ascendant Council gloves, and ofc double mastery trinkets.
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Re: Riddle me this, Batman....

Postby Cascadian » Wed Mar 23, 2011 4:18 pm

With 357 gear I am running at 88.08% CTC unbuffed.
11.38% Dodge
13.28% Parry
58.42% Block
5% Miss

Unbuffed health is 152,463 and that seems like more than enough for the normal raids that I am on (10/12).
I made the decision recently to go with pure +40 Mastery gems instead of the hybrid +20/+30 Mastery/Stamina gems.
So I lost 3,500 health doing that. But it seems like a non issue.

It looks like CTC cap will be reached with mostly 372 gear and raid buffs.
And you only need to sacrafice about 6%-7% CTC coverage to get Hit at 8% and Expertise soft cap.
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Re: Riddle me this, Batman....

Postby Gamingdevil » Fri Mar 25, 2011 6:12 am

Shoju wrote:http://chardev.org/?profile=79496


You didn't reforge the expertise off the head, that should put you closer or even over.
If it is weak, kill it before it gets stronger. If it is strong, weaken it.
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Re: Riddle me this, Batman....

Postby fuzzygeek » Fri Mar 25, 2011 10:28 am

Mastery food and pot can get you to blockcap in 359 gear (although come to think, I'm also using JC gems); I use my set pretty extensively. I'm not certain where the tradeoff is between stam and perma 40% phys damage redux is, exactly, but I'm wearing it for more and more fights.
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