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[10] Heroic Maloriak

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Re: [10] Heroic Maloriak

Postby Tekkel » Wed Mar 09, 2011 3:26 am

We spend 2,5 nights on this before getting a kill. We always tried to get a wave of adds before he went to black phase and just cleave them down while aoeing the viles.
Same goes for the green phase.Aoe it all down and let him spawn another set of adds to cleave with viles.
That way you only get 6 adds per red/blue phase which makes kiting easier on the tank and less chance of gibs.
If you do get a 3rd breath the guy with the debuff should allready be back in the group. It always cleared before he did a final breath for us.
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Re: [10] Heroic Maloriak

Postby Ezelyn » Wed Mar 09, 2011 6:42 am

Thanks for advices, i just hope we will have enought dps on aoe phase.
Our comp is really problematic on this fight :

Fire mage, Elemental Shaman (low aoe when targets move), Enhancement Shaman (no aoe at all), Shadow Priest (low aoe), retladin (olol)

Blizzard said you will be able to choose people because your love playing with them, not because they play the class you need.
But its look like its still the case, to many classes are low in aoe, and too many are overpowered...


We are running like you, reset after reset to have a blackphase with 3 abo. It's driving me crazy to reset maybe 20 times by night. Pretty like chimaeron 1min phase... this RNG is not fun at all.
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Re: [10] Heroic Maloriak

Postby Belloc » Wed Mar 09, 2011 10:11 am

Ezelyn wrote:Thanks for advices, i just hope we will have enought dps on aoe phase.
Our comp is really problematic on this fight :

Fire mage, Elemental Shaman (low aoe when targets move), Enhancement Shaman (no aoe at all), Shadow Priest (low aoe), retladin (olol)

Blizzard said you will be able to choose people because your love playing with them, not because they play the class you need.
But its look like its still the case, to many classes are low in aoe, and too many are overpowered...


We are running like you, reset after reset to have a blackphase with 3 abo. It's driving me crazy to reset maybe 20 times by night. Pretty like chimaeron 1min phase... this RNG is not fun at all.

Your comp will be fine as long as your mage can impact off of Maloriak (make sure Maloriak stacks with the adds during the green phase long enough for the mage to impact) and as long as you make sure that your DPS are saving cooldowns for the AOE phases. You have two shamans -- perhaps they can alternate elementals for the burn phases. Or, alternatively, they can use both elementals on the first AOE phase and then you can get a set or two of adds before the 2nd dark magic phase.

For your comp, I would suggest trying this: If you can get an add before the first dark magic phase, do so. If not, only release 2 sets of adds before the first green phase. AOEing them down should be easier. Have one of your shaman use their elemental (whichever is best for AOEing). At this point, you'll have 6 down. Allow the next two sets of Aberrations to release (before the 2nd dark magic phase). Single target as many as you can and then clean up the rest while you're taking out the Vile Swill. Now you have 12 down. At this point you can release the rest and just single target them down if it is safe to do so (meaning, don't chain flash freeze or break your fire phase stacking). Clean up whatever you need to and get Maloriak to 25% before the 3rd set of Vile Swill spawn.
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Re: [10] Heroic Maloriak

Postby PsiVen » Wed Mar 09, 2011 6:06 pm

As long as Maloriak is pulled out of the pile in time, you have a fair amount of time to continue AoEing down the adds, even if they do take substantially reduced damage and need to be kited/cooldowned by the tank. If 6 adds die fast enough but not 9, see if you can divert enough DPS to kill two of them. You should be having to stop DPS on the boss for quite a while already, so use that time to kill off adds. Try marking one of the first adds that pops out, and having your retadin offtank him away from the others to be blown up alone. If it seems like you won't have enough DPS on the boss killing two adds per phase this way, remember that whenever you miss out on a set of pre-Dark adds, your Vile Swill should be dying substantially faster and giving you more time to burn the boss.


On an unrelated note, we've lately been suffering from an apparent glitch where Maloriak does not properly get affected by the green debuff, and either one-shots the MT or gets off an Arcane Storm tick for 130k and one-shots the entire raid. Fun times.
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Re: [10] Heroic Maloriak

Postby Repartee » Wed Mar 09, 2011 11:11 pm

Vort wrote:The third breath is a bit of RNG as to whether he casts it or not.

Timers are not reliable for this either, we've had Mal cast it immediately before any other casts and BEFORE the timer expires. On the other end of the spectrum we use AD to soak the second Breath and I've had it run out on some attempts just because of her refusal to cast the damn thing.


I always soak the very 1st fire breath with AD. Wait 1 to 2 seconds after he debuffs someone with Consuming Flames and hit AD. I've yet to die using that timing.

We face him perpendicular to the cauldron. Facing left for 1st breath then I flip him facing right for subsequent fire breaths. This gives your add tank the entire entrance area of the room to kite and be safe if he gets Consuming Flames.

The hardest part of this fight for me is learning to properly interrupt. Not having a true 'activate on keypress' anymore really forces me to quickly tap my rebuke key. Activate on key-release is not ideal at all when Arcane Storm interrupt is so tightly tuned. Blizzard needs to have 'on key press' as an option like Rift does. Being 0.01 seconds off can easily result in a wipe. Too RNG for my tastes.
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Re: [10] Heroic Maloriak

Postby PsiVen » Thu Mar 10, 2011 4:07 am

There have been addons that cast on keypress for quite some time, and it's baseline functionality in 4.1 defaulted to on. Personally I prefer the current functionality, as if you really need that reaction time it is actually faster to hold it in advance and release when you need the interrupt to go off. All about what you're used to though; I can certainly see that setting being handy for Arcane Storm.

Thankfully WoW doesn't have Rift's awful action queueing system that has no setting between "off" and "1000ms latency compensation." Bleh.
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Re: [10] Heroic Maloriak

Postby Repartee » Thu Mar 10, 2011 6:02 am

PsiVen wrote:There have been addons that cast on keypress for quite some time, and it's baseline functionality in 4.1 defaulted to on. Personally I prefer the current functionality, as if you really need that reaction time it is actually faster to hold it in advance and release when you need the interrupt to go off. All about what you're used to though; I can certainly see that setting being handy for Arcane Storm.

Thankfully WoW doesn't have Rift's awful action queueing system that has no setting between "off" and "1000ms latency compensation." Bleh.



Those addons (e.g. SnowfallKeyPress) were intentionally disabled/broken by Blizzard for Cataclysm because people were exploiting the gcd issue or something. I never used one because I never had an off-the-gcd interrupt -- until now. In our 10 man (probably like most 10 mans), there is no luxury in having redundant interrupts.

It's highly annoying when you have to swear to your group that you pressed DOWN the interrupt key at the same moment you saw the channeled AS cast, and a tick goes off one instant and gets interrupted another time. Because you might have released the key a fraction late one time it likely results in a wipe. Add a 100ms+ ping in the mix and you have -no- room for leeway. I literally resorted to doing nothing but waiting on AS cast and pecking the V key like a mad man when I see the channel. :-P

On our 2nd kill I had enough practice in and resumed my normal rotation while waiting to interrupt. Like you said, it's all about what you're used to doing. A guildmate, who's knowledge of the game I highly respect and who's played since release as I have, never even knew about the 'on key release' issue.
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Re: [10] Heroic Maloriak

Postby ekhie » Tue Mar 15, 2011 4:18 am

I'm sorry if this was already covered in the thread but If it was, I didn't see it.

We're going to be attempting Maloriak hard next week (on 25-man though) and I have a question about Scorching Breath in red vial phase. Is it possible and viable for a (non-tank) paladin to taunt him while bubbled to soak one breath all by themselves? I know it requires pretty nice timing but still, is it possible? :-P
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Re: [10] Heroic Maloriak

Postby kristoferpally » Wed Mar 16, 2011 12:10 am

Repartee wrote:
PsiVen wrote:There have been addons that cast on keypress for quite some time, and it's baseline functionality in 4.1 defaulted to on. Personally I prefer the current functionality, as if you really need that reaction time it is actually faster to hold it in advance and release when you need the interrupt to go off. All about what you're used to though; I can certainly see that setting being handy for Arcane Storm.

Thankfully WoW doesn't have Rift's awful action queueing system that has no setting between "off" and "1000ms latency compensation." Bleh.



Those addons (e.g. SnowfallKeyPress) were intentionally disabled/broken by Blizzard for Cataclysm because people were exploiting the gcd issue or something. I never used one because I never had an off-the-gcd interrupt -- until now. In our 10 man (probably like most 10 mans), there is no luxury in having redundant interrupts.

It's highly annoying when you have to swear to your group that you pressed DOWN the interrupt key at the same moment you saw the channeled AS cast, and a tick goes off one instant and gets interrupted another time. Because you might have released the key a fraction late one time it likely results in a wipe. Add a 100ms+ ping in the mix and you have -no- room for leeway. I literally resorted to doing nothing but waiting on AS cast and pecking the V key like a mad man when I see the channel. :-P

On our 2nd kill I had enough practice in and resumed my normal rotation while waiting to interrupt. Like you said, it's all about what you're used to doing. A guildmate, who's knowledge of the game I highly respect and who's played since release as I have, never even knew about the 'on key release' issue.




FALSE. Those addons still work. You may need to check that you have out of date addons active or something. I dont use snowfall I use 'speedy actions' but I assure you these addons still work. Went and double checked now. Abilities going off on key press as normal.
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Re: [10] Heroic Maloriak

Postby Ezelyn » Wed Mar 16, 2011 4:07 am

ekhie wrote:I'm sorry if this was already covered in the thread but If it was, I didn't see it.

We're going to be attempting Maloriak hard next week (on 25-man though) and I have a question about Scorching Breath in red vial phase. Is it possible and viable for a (non-tank) paladin to taunt him while bubbled to soak one breath all by themselves? I know it requires pretty nice timing but still, is it possible? :-P


I don't think you can do it. In a bubble taunt, you only have 3sec to take the breath. But in this fight, there isnt any timer for firebreath. We always use raidcd or AD 2sec after the dot, but these cd are long cd... i'm pretty sure the X seconds between Dot and Breath arn't always the same, so you will fail a lot.
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Re: [10] Heroic Maloriak

Postby ekhie » Wed Mar 16, 2011 5:48 am

Ezelyn wrote:
ekhie wrote:I'm sorry if this was already covered in the thread but If it was, I didn't see it.

We're going to be attempting Maloriak hard next week (on 25-man though) and I have a question about Scorching Breath in red vial phase. Is it possible and viable for a (non-tank) paladin to taunt him while bubbled to soak one breath all by themselves? I know it requires pretty nice timing but still, is it possible? :-P


I don't think you can do it. In a bubble taunt, you only have 3sec to take the breath. But in this fight, there isnt any timer for firebreath. We always use raidcd or AD 2sec after the dot, but these cd are long cd... i'm pretty sure the X seconds between Dot and Breath arn't always the same, so you will fail a lot.

Thank you for your answer!

We are currently in the wierd situation where we don't have a single prot pally, so our raid cooldowns are one or two Barriers and I think our DK can throw up AMZ as well. Is this enough? I mean, if my calculations aren't horribly wrong, with 23 people soaking the breath (best case scenario, everyone except the 2 add tanks) it would hit for 108-130k before resists and mitigation. That sounds like a lot. Make it 21 or 22 people soaking it when few get Consuming Flames and have to run out and the damage just gets obscene.

So we should rotate Barriers followed by AMZ? Are Barriers back up again on the next red phase?
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Re: [10] Heroic Maloriak

Postby Ezelyn » Wed Mar 16, 2011 6:41 am

ekhie wrote:We are currently in the wierd situation where we don't have a single prot pally, so our raid cooldowns are one or two Barriers and I think our DK can throw up AMZ as well. Is this enough? I mean, if my calculations aren't horribly wrong, with 23 people soaking the breath (best case scenario, everyone except the 2 add tanks) it would hit for 108-130k before resists and mitigation. That sounds like a lot. Make it 21 or 22 people soaking it when few get Consuming Flames and have to run out and the damage just gets obscene.
So we should rotate Barriers followed by AMZ? Are Barriers back up again on the next red phase?


Maybe you have no prot, but you cant play without 1 or 2 healadin, don't you ?
Aura mastery is a really powerfull cd on this case. You can also use all pets you can have (hunter's, warlock's but they need to recall them on the front of maloriak), Serpent Sting trap works well too if your hunter manage to trigger it.

I dont know if maloriak can do : black blue red green / black red blue green (worst case for CD)
Barrier and Aura Mastery should be reup.
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Re: [10] Heroic Maloriak

Postby Gab » Wed Mar 16, 2011 6:51 am

In addition to what Ezelyn said, I doubt AMZ will make a noticeable difference on the damage from a breath. Pretty sure Maloriak can in fact do Red-Green-Black-Red, although two minute CDs will definitely be ready to go again.
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Re: [10] Heroic Maloriak

Postby ekhie » Wed Mar 16, 2011 10:21 am

Ezelyn wrote:Maybe you have no prot, but you cant play without 1 or 2 healadin, don't you ?
Aura mastery is a really powerfull cd on this case.

Indeed, that'll surely push us "over the top" so to speak.

You can also use all pets you can have (hunter's, warlock's but they need to recall them on the front of maloriak), Serpent Sting trap works well too if your hunter manage to trigger it.
[/quote]
Yeah, we'll pull all pets to our sides even on normal mode so that's not an issue. Snake Trap is somewhat hard to make use of as if you trigger it from Maloriak, they converge behind him and thus do nothing helpful. Although, I've been reading about an add tank tanking the adds just behind the ranged pile and get a Snake Trap trigger off of the Aberrations. Might be tough to pull off but I will definitely try it (I'm a hunter myself).

Thanks for your answers, Ezelyn. :)
Last edited by ekhie on Wed Mar 16, 2011 10:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [10] Heroic Maloriak

Postby ekhie » Wed Mar 16, 2011 10:24 am

Gab wrote:In addition to what Ezelyn said, I doubt AMZ will make a noticeable difference on the damage from a breath. Pretty sure Maloriak can in fact do Red-Green-Black-Red, although two minute CDs will definitely be ready to go again.

Well, I recall seeing some post where a DK claimed that AMZ will reduce the damage of the breath by full 75% due to some weird mechanic. Basically the breath hits and as it hits everyone at the same time, it doesn't consume the "until X amount of damage has been absorbed" effect and thus gives the full -75% damage taken.

I might be completely wrong on this one though, so if anyone has any info on this it would be highly appreciated.
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