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Re: Nook Color

Postby Sabindeus » Tue Mar 15, 2011 4:12 pm

fuzzygeek wrote:
knaughty wrote:Even if I loved Windows, please show me a netbook that can do the things on my iPad task list and still have a battery that lasts a whole weekend.

I took my iPad on a two-day car rally his month. It was used to do GPS navigation, do some forum posting, and entertain my 3YO with movies for an entire weekend. I forgot to pack the charger. It was on 40% battery when we got back.


This, admittedly, is kind of amazing. The vast majority of your uses are things I'd do on my phone, which fits nicely in my pocket. Do you need a carrying case for your ipad of some fasion? My major complaint about my tablet is that it doesn't fit into my pocket, unless I'm wearing my Paddington Bear jacket that has ginormous pockets.

It does seem like it fits a lot of tween-tasks.


Ok here's the deal. If you rate all of those things as "I would do that on my phone!" tasks, then IMO you don't need an iPad. Personally my iPad is a comics/web/ebook reader for couch/bathroom. That's very different from Knaughty's use cases, but I do also have a friend who has, with a bluetooth keyboard, more or less replaced his laptop AND phone with his ipad for everything except coding. This is including making calls for which he uses Skype and a headset.
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Re: Nook Color

Postby fafhrd » Tue Mar 15, 2011 4:18 pm

knaughty wrote:
fafhrd wrote:
knaughty wrote:According to the Android forum, there's about 50 apps and 50 games for Honeycomb, which us the only tablet optimized version of Android.


Why are you counting Honeycomb specific apps only? There are about 250k android apps, most of which will run on Honeycomb tablets.

Possibly ignorance of Android, but my experience is that tablet optimisation matters.

My experience of iPhone apps on my iPad is that they work fine, but they're still smartphone apps that happen to run on an iPad, rather than tablet apps.

I edit spreadsheets on my iPad, I wouldn't do that on my iPhone. Go look at the demo movies on the Apple website for iMovie and GarageBand on the iPad. The iWork apps are also pretty damn amazing. I keep being very, very tempted to buy the various iPad remakes of 80's and 90's electronic music hardware. None of these are "phone capable" things.

Your Honeycomb tablet being able to run your Android phone apps is definitely a seriously good feature. But there is (currently) a real shortage of tablet apps.


Yeah I'm sure the optimised apps will be better, but the old apps do run, and even if you have annoyances like an options screen taking up the whole viewable area instead of just sliding into the side like it would in the tablet optimized version, this still leaves you vastly better off than if you really only had 50 apps to run. You have 50 that will take advantage of the new features in the OS and the larger screen, and won't have annoyances like really graphics for some things, and most of the other stuff you want will run, but will be a few weeks before they get optimised.

As for editing spreadsheets, I'd expect Google would let you do that for free through google docs, so it should be good to go out of the box. The sort of apps that Google traditionally provides for free will likely get the best table optimizations the soonest, the ones I'd worry about are the old apps that rarely update because the dev hasn't been seen in months (my favourite ebook reader for instance has had one update in the 8 months or so I've used it, although it admittedly worked fine for me even before the update) - I can see it scaling up just fine for a tablet screen, but am dubious about how quickly it'll actually be optimised for a tablet.

But like Sabin just said, I'm probably not getting even an android tablet anytime soon, since I just don't see doing anything with one I don't do with my phone currently. I'm hoping to see some of honeycomb's improvements make it back to my phone though, and they are trickling in now thanks to various custom ROM developers.
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Re: Nook Color

Postby Arnock » Tue Mar 15, 2011 4:36 pm

I have an ASUS Eee PC 1001p, bought it at CompUsa for 300 bucks ~6 months ago. 160gb hard drive, 1gb ram, 1.6 ghz processor, 10.1 inch screen


Netbook equals:
  • No GPS.
    Granted, an ipad is more convenient for GPS use, but it certainly is doable on laptops.
  • Shitty WiFi compared to Apple hardware. Probably works "OK"
    Define "Shitty," I've never run into any issues, download/upload speeds are about equal (within .1 mbps) between my netbook's wi-fi and desktop's wired connection
  • Amazingly shit battery life.
    Depending on how many programs I'm running, I get 6-12 hours of battery life.
  • Keyboard can't be removed.
    Why would you need to...?
  • Can't be used by 3YO.
    Can't confirm or deny this one, but I remember using a DOS system when I was 3 or 4 (math rabbit FTW). If a 3YO can push a button to bring up an app, don't see why he/she couldn't click an icon to bring up various games.
  • Fragile
I commute by bike 18 miles per day with the netbook in a pannier along with 15-20 lbs worth of textbooks, and these are on roads that aren't exactly well maintained, I've accidentally dropped it over 3 feet a few times without so much as a scratch. Not sure how durable it needs to be to not be considered 'fragile,' but it's certainly been more than durable enough for me.
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Re: Nook Color

Postby Sabindeus » Tue Mar 15, 2011 4:41 pm

Arnock wrote:[*]Amazingly shit battery life.
Depending on how many programs I'm running, I get 6-12 hours of battery life.


iPad battery lasts me a month or so of light usage every so often. Probably if you are actually using it hardcore for like videos and stuff it would last 12 hours.

My main complaint with my Mini 10v was the touchpad was amazingly horrific. Also the stock battery lasted 2 hours if lucky. I know they had a bigger one that made it bulkier and heavier and also cost almost as much as the machine itself.
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Re: Nook Color

Postby knaughty » Tue Mar 15, 2011 4:59 pm

fuzzygeek wrote:
knaughty wrote:They're buying MacBook Pros & loading XP.


This doesn't seem prudent. But then, inertia is a powerful decision maker.


I assume that you think the fact they're still running XP is the bit that's not prudent?

The issue is the installed base of over 6,000 applications, many of them developed in-house and very non-portable. The company in question has tens of thousands of employees.... it is hard to switch platforms. Dozens or hundreds of apps break when you do a service pack, let alone an OS switch or *shudder* an upgrade to a 64-bit OS.

Eval of going to Win7-64bit for the desktop showed that the effort required was so high that you may as well just give up go to 100% web front-end for all enterprise applications (the entire in-house developed app suite, basically) which allows you to be almost completely device agnostic for desktop.
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Re: Nook Color

Postby fuzzygeek » Tue Mar 15, 2011 5:12 pm

Sabindeus wrote:Personally my iPad is a comics/web/ebook reader for couch/bathroom. That's very different from Knaughty's use cases, but I do also have a friend who has, with a bluetooth keyboard, more or less replaced his laptop AND phone with his ipad for everything except coding. This is including making calls for which he uses Skype and a headset.


Yeah, I use my tablet for reading/surfing and light coding (I don't like not having a keyboard); for heavy-duty processing I remote desktop into my primary machine. I barely use my phone as a phone: its primary advantage is that it fits in my pocket.

My tablet was $50 more than the listed price of the iPad2. iPad bluetooth keyboards likely drive it to a comparable price point, so cost-wise it doesn't seem terribly different. But then, my tablet can run WoW :D

I am certainly envious over batter life, that's for sure.

The issue is the installed base of over 6,000 applications, many of them developed in-house and very non-portable.


I assumed as much, hence the inertia comment.
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Re: Nook Color

Postby knaughty » Tue Mar 15, 2011 8:03 pm

fuzzygeek wrote:
knaughty wrote:I took my iPad on a two-day car rally his month. It was used to do GPS navigation, do some forum posting, and entertain my 3YO with movies for an entire weekend. I forgot to pack the charger. It was on 40% battery when we got back.

This, admittedly, is kind of amazing. The vast majority of your uses are things I'd do on my phone, which fits nicely in my pocket. Do you need a carrying case for your ipad of some fasion? My major complaint about my tablet is that it doesn't fit into my pocket, unless I'm wearing my Paddington Bear jacket that has ginormous pockets

I got the iPad when I had a iPhone 3G (not a GS) and it was too slow to be much more than a really cool phone.

Shortly after I got the iPad, Mrs Knaughty put my iPhone though the washing machine and dryer, and I replaced the kaput 3G with a 4G.

The iPhone 4G is so good that there is heavy overlap between the iPad and the 4G – most of the iPad stuff I do I can do on the phone instead, so it ends up being which one is more convenient. Taking notes in a meeting? iPad with Bluetooth keyboard. In-car navigation? Mostly iPhone (unless I want a really big view of the map).

Walking round the office I cart the iPad around with no bag or cover. To commute, I stick it in a tiny shoulder bag just big enough to carry a physical magazine or two, the iPad and the keyboard (which I mostly leave sitting on my desk at work anyway).

A relative wants to buy my iPad, at which point I’ll get the iPad 2, mostly for the smart-cover – iPad 1 covers kind of suck (which is why I don’t use one) but the smart-cover is the most important upgrade between the 1st and 2nd gen iPads from my perspective..

The 3YO has a strong preference for the iPad over the iPhone, despite the fact that most of his apps are dual-mode and run on both.
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Re: Nook Color

Postby fafhrd » Tue Mar 15, 2011 8:06 pm

*home from work*

Knaughty why do you not have your sexy sig anymore, i don't like you anymore without the sig >=(
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Re: Nook Color

Postby knaughty » Tue Mar 15, 2011 8:26 pm

Arnock wrote:Netbook equals:
  • No GPS.
    Granted, an ipad is more convenient for GPS use, but it certainly is doable on laptops.
  • Shitty WiFi compared to Apple hardware. Probably works "OK"
    Define "Shitty," I've never run into any issues, download/upload speeds are about equal (within .1 mbps) between my netbook's wi-fi and desktop's wired connection
  • Amazingly shit battery life.
    Depending on how many programs I'm running, I get 6-12 hours of battery life.
  • Keyboard can't be removed.
    Why would you need to...?
  • Can't be used by 3YO.
    Can't confirm or deny this one, but I remember using a DOS system when I was 3 or 4 (math rabbit FTW). If a 3YO can push a button to bring up an app, don't see why he/she couldn't click an icon to bring up various games.
  • Fragile
I commute by bike 18 miles per day with the netbook in a pannier along with 15-20 lbs worth of textbooks, and these are on roads that aren't exactly well maintained, I've accidentally dropped it over 3 feet a few times without so much as a scratch. Not sure how durable it needs to be to not be considered 'fragile,' but it's certainly been more than durable enough for me.


I get the “hack it together from bits” ethos – my first copy of Linux came on 17 floppy disks. I’ve built countless PCs from scratch. Nowadays I’d rather spend my time working on my classic cars than building frankenPCs. Someone said earlier (Levie?) that their motivation for using WinTel was the joy of construction/hacking. Great reason! IMO: Best reason!

Just not my reason anymore. I no longer enjoy putting computers together. Been there, done that, physically assembled a $2.5million dollar Solaris box (IE: Wielded the hex wrench to bolt in circuit boards). Once you’ve built a computer so big it needs a PC-sized computer just to run its insides, building PCs loses its charm.

So “I can hack GPS onto my NetBook” is a cool project, but not something I want to do personally. Ten years ago I would have been all over it – I was soldering robots together back then :P

Shitty WiFi = 1x1 antenna instead of 3x3, no access to 5GHz band, possibly no 802.11n, only g. Yeah it “works”, probably well enough. Potential elitism on my part. But I do like that Apple kit is often very much at the cutting/bleeding edge of the technology envelope – it means their stuff lasts longer. Dumping floppies, serial, parallel; embracing USB, CDs, EFI, WiFi, ThunderBolt, etc, etc. There’s a reason Intel give Apple early access to new tech – they do the best job of embracing it and rolling it out.

Battery: You get 6-12 hours. I get a week, Sabindus gets a month. Shitty battery life is shitty.

Keyboard: The only thing I use the physical keyboard for is taking meeting notes/minutes. I didn’t buy it for the iPad, I had one lying round, I wouldn’t miss it much if it was gone. Why would I want to carry it around when I use it 10% of the time?

Junior’s been using the iPad from a little over 2. He can’t use a keyboard or mouse yet (recognises numbers and letters but can’t read). iPad is hugely easier to use than a PC. Same applies to adults, BTW – one of my in-laws never made the switch from typewriter & shorthand to the PC, she found it too hard. She got an iPad for Christmas and can actually use it.

On the fragile front: Most of the WinTel laptops I’ve seen are simply not as well built as Apple kit. The freaking case is machined from a solid lump of aluminium, for christ’s sake! The iPad feels “hewn from solid” – which is unsurprising, given that it actually is.... Injection moulded plastic screwed and clipped together is just not the same. Your one might be tough enough for you. Personally, I’ve never dropped any of my Apple laptops or portable devices so it’s moot. But they feel so much stronger. It’s sexy :P Laugh, but I’m a technology-geek, I love things that feel “engineered”.
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Re: Nook Color

Postby knaughty » Tue Mar 15, 2011 8:27 pm

fafhrd wrote:*home from work*

Knaughty why do you not have your sexy sig anymore, i don't like you anymore without the sig >=(


This one?

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I thought it was a bit tall, so I removed it.
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Re: Nook Color

Postby knaughty » Tue Mar 15, 2011 8:35 pm

fafhrd wrote:I ... am none too thrilled about anyone other than me thinking they should decide what I can and can't run on it. I am free to install something dumb on my desktop and shoot myself in the foot if I'm not careful, I have no sympathy for Job's belief that I shouldn't have the same ability on my phone.


Got a PlayStation, Wii or XBox? :twisted:
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Re: Nook Color

Postby fafhrd » Tue Mar 15, 2011 9:31 pm

knaughty wrote:
fafhrd wrote:I ... am none too thrilled about anyone other than me thinking they should decide what I can and can't run on it. I am free to install something dumb on my desktop and shoot myself in the foot if I'm not careful, I have no sympathy for Job's belief that I shouldn't have the same ability on my phone.


Got a PlayStation, Wii or XBox? :twisted:


No, play wow too much for that :/
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Re: Nook Color

Postby fafhrd » Tue Mar 15, 2011 9:32 pm

knaughty wrote:
fafhrd wrote:*home from work*

Knaughty why do you not have your sexy sig anymore, i don't like you anymore without the sig >=(


This one?

Image

I thought it was a bit tall, so I removed it.


Nah, I think the one before that. More pink and gold IIRC.

Also you could lie down or kneel to be shorter ^_^
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Re: Nook Color

Postby fuzzygeek » Tue Mar 15, 2011 10:06 pm

fafhrd wrote:Also you could lie down or kneel to be shorter ^_^


Faf trying to get Knaughty on her knees ITT.
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Re: Nook Color

Postby fafhrd » Wed Mar 16, 2011 3:04 pm

fuzzygeek wrote:
fafhrd wrote:Also you could lie down or kneel to be shorter ^_^


Faf trying to get Knaughty on her knees ITT.


* or on her back. On her back is always good.
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