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Re: Nook Color

Postby knaughty » Tue Mar 15, 2011 2:08 pm

Levantine wrote:Man, I'd forgotten how much of a macfag you were, Knaughty.

I'm not a macfag - I've switched computer platforms.... 7? times.

I'm a "buy the best computer available" fag.

Knaughty's platform list
  1. Commodore 64
  2. Amiga 1000
  3. DOS (miles worse than the Amiga, but I was doing PC support for my family business by the time I hit my teens)
  4. Windows 3.1.1
  5. NT 3.5.1 (got my MCSE)
  6. NT 4.0 (shit OS, made me switch. What kind of fucktard puts graphics into the kernel of a server OS.... then gets the OEMs to write the drivers?)
  7. SGI IRIX (5.3 through 6.4) Yes, as a home PC. Was fucking awesome.
  8. Solaris (many versions) Not as good as IRIX, but there was more money in running it, so I kept my IRIX box for fun.
  9. Windows 2000 so I could play EverQuest and run MS Orifice
  10. OMG, Macs are switching to Unix but still run MS Office? Sign me up!

fuzzygeek wrote:What do you use your iPad for? I'm realize I'm probably not the target demographic for something like this, but I'm trying to figure out the actual utility of this device.

Rough list of things I use the iPad for every week follows. I bought it to read blogs on the train because my wife was getting annoyed by me reading them at home instead of helping feed/bathe/put to bed the kids. I thought I might get some other uses out of it, but nothing like how useful I've found it in practice. It is much more useful than I expected.

  • Taking notes at meetings. I have one of those super-tiny Apple bluetooth keyboards. So much simpler & faster & lighter than a laptop. The notes are cloud-synced to my Windows desktop @ work and my Mac @ home. Multiple times a day.
  • Reading all my blogs & webcomics on the train home (I have a 3G iPad). Home is a bit busy to two that with a baby & a pre-schooler. Every weekday.
  • It's my three-year-old's computer. He can drive it, has a whole page of his own apps, a mix of games, educational and Dr Seuss stories. Every time he can get his hands on it.
  • Watching movies. Especially on the days I commute into the CBD with said 3YO. I've ripped his DVD collection to my iPad. Two days a week.
  • Playing games. Most days.
  • Reading the Economist (they have an app). Every week.
  • Using as a car-rally-navigation device. About once a month, but fucking awesome.

Arnock wrote:Still don't understand the reasoning behind spending $500+ on a tablet over a 2-300 dollar netbook that can do so much more.


Because netbooks are shite. Part of the issue for me is that they all run Windows or Linux, neither of which I'm fond of. But the main issue is that they junk computers and I won't use junk. My last Windows box was $5,000 because I wanted something decent.

Even if I loved Windows, please show me a netbook that can do the things on my iPad task list and still have a battery that lasts a whole weekend.

I took my iPad on a two-day car rally his month. It was used to do GPS navigation, do some forum posting, and entertain my 3YO with movies for an entire weekend. I forgot to pack the charger. It was on 40% battery when we got back.

Netbook equals:
  • No GPS.
  • Shitty WiFi compared to Apple hardware. Probably works "OK"
  • Amazingly shit battery life.
  • Keyboard can't be removed.
  • Can't be used by 3YO.
  • Fragile
That ignores the OS, the App Store and the touch-screen, all of which are fucktastically amazing.
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Re: Nook Color

Postby knaughty » Tue Mar 15, 2011 2:13 pm

For those going, TL;DR:

People not understanding the appeal of the iPad are like farmers looking at a Model T Ford from their horse-drawn buggy and saying "But where do you put they hay? or "Cars suck, you can't stick a saddle on the front half and ride it when you don't need the whole wagon"

You're missing the point....

Go watch Star Trek Next Gen or Avatar. Apple just built the Sci-Fi computer that some of us have been waiting 30 years for.
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Re: Nook Color

Postby Sabindeus » Tue Mar 15, 2011 2:26 pm

knaughty wrote:Go watch Star Trek Next Gen or Avatar. Apple just built the Sci-Fi computer that some of us have been waiting 30 years for.


Knaughty, buddy, you know I love you, but statements like this are why people like Lev call you a macfag, and gives all of us actual macfags a bad name.
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Re: Nook Color

Postby fafhrd » Tue Mar 15, 2011 2:27 pm

Knaughty, I don't understand the appeal of an iPad (or a Xoom) because I do everything I'd do on it on my phone, which I find easier to carry. I'm tempted to get one anyway for "oo shiny" reasons, but I can't think of any actual gain from carrying it around.

And people are calling you a macfag because you say ridiculous things like "no apps" about android phones/tablets. In a year of use I've never run into a situation of thinking "damn I wish I had that iPhone only app available here".
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Re: Nook Color

Postby Levantine » Tue Mar 15, 2011 2:34 pm

But don't you see? Android is the devil. (I like how even the legit macfag see's the reason I called Knaughty a macfag <3)

I personally don't care either way, I just happen to like putting together my own computer from scratch and the interface on my X10 more than the iPhone interface. I'm also a graphic design minor at uni, so I pretty much have to use macs if I want to actually do any work AT uni, and they're fine too.
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Re: Nook Color

Postby Sabindeus » Tue Mar 15, 2011 2:34 pm

holy crap fafhrd still exists?
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Re: Nook Color

Postby fafhrd » Tue Mar 15, 2011 2:42 pm

Hi Sabin macfag :)

I'm always with you guys (watching), just not posting.
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Re: Nook Color

Postby Kelaan » Tue Mar 15, 2011 2:54 pm

knaughty wrote:Rough list of things I use the iPad for every week follows....

  • Taking notes at meetings.
  • Reading all my blogs & webcomics
  • It's my three-year-old's computer
  • Watching movies
  • Reading ${MAGAZINE_APP}
  • Using as a car-rally-navigation device

Awesome list of what to use an Ipad for. Slick. I prefer writing to typing at meetings, but covet my wife's tablet PC. I don't travel anywhere that I'm not driving ... not often enough that a book won't last me, at least. I read webcomics at home, though I shouldn't. Basically, I'm jealous of your non-driving commute and the free time it gives you. :D

The Ipad is pretty awesome. Sure, I'm not keen on some Apple app-store decisions, but it's not like you can't jailbreak it. I just can't seem to find uses for it (or similar) that justify dropping the money on it. Perhaps when/if I have more ... but we're planning to buy a house. :)
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Re: Nook Color

Postby knaughty » Tue Mar 15, 2011 2:55 pm

Well of course there are some Android apps.

According to the Android forum, there's about 50 apps and 50 games for Honeycomb, which us the only tablet optimized version of Android.

http://forum.androidcentral.com/motorol ... -list.html

There's hundreds of thousands of iPad apps.

Can someone explain why "thousands of times more apps" is a good argument for Windows superiority but it isn't a good one when Apple use it?
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Re: Nook Color

Postby fuzzygeek » Tue Mar 15, 2011 3:43 pm

knaughty wrote:Even if I loved Windows, please show me a netbook that can do the things on my iPad task list and still have a battery that lasts a whole weekend.

I took my iPad on a two-day car rally his month. It was used to do GPS navigation, do some forum posting, and entertain my 3YO with movies for an entire weekend. I forgot to pack the charger. It was on 40% battery when we got back.


This, admittedly, is kind of amazing. The vast majority of your uses are things I'd do on my phone, which fits nicely in my pocket. Do you need a carrying case for your ipad of some fasion? My major complaint about my tablet is that it doesn't fit into my pocket, unless I'm wearing my Paddington Bear jacket that has ginormous pockets.

It does seem like it fits a lot of tween-tasks.
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Re: Nook Color

Postby fafhrd » Tue Mar 15, 2011 3:51 pm

knaughty wrote:Well of course there are some Android apps.

According to the Android forum, there's about 50 apps and 50 games for Honeycomb, which us the only tablet optimized version of Android.

http://forum.androidcentral.com/motorol ... -list.html

There's hundreds of thousands of iPad apps.


Why are you counting Honeycomb specific apps only? There are about 250k android apps, most of which will run on Honeycomb tablets. Many of Google's own demos so far have used regular non-honeycomb apps, since Honeycomb does a very good job pulling the regular apps apart for display on a larger screen. Apps that have been written for phones according to best practices translated pretty well, although I'm sure they'll improve more once versions are released to break activities into the new "fragments" so the OS knows what to tile on tablets but not on phones. The video I'm thinking of went into this in particular with Google Maps, showing how well the menus and main map area shared or scaled, but pointing out you could see it's still the phone app since things like the map scale thing in the corner is still phone-sized, and some options screens have the label way over on one side and the checkbox way over on the other.

The goal is to have the same app work on both but be interpreted differently by each, not having device-specific apps - I'm sure the number of updated apps will go up pretty quickly now that the full honeycomb is in in the wild and people don't need to use the annoying emulator to develop for it. Apple definitely did a better job of making sure devs had access to their iPad SDKs well before launch.

People have even been doing the reverse, installing the new Honeycomb apps on their phones.
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Re: Nook Color

Postby knaughty » Tue Mar 15, 2011 3:54 pm

Levantine wrote:, I just happen to like putting together my own computer from scratch.


Great reason to be using WinTel. I did that for... Err... 15ish years? By 2000 I was mostly using a laptop as a PC, and you can't build those. Used together Toshiba & Sony because they hilt the best portables.

Even excluding the OS issues, Apple has been building the best laptops for a few years now. I'm aware of a large company moving several thousand staff to laptops for flexible working. They need powerful laptops that can be desktop replacements, with great battery life and as light & durable as possible. Corporate desktop OS is XP. They're buying MacBook Pros & loading XP. Dell & HP simply don't make hardware good enough.

Seriously. Go check the HW specs of the new Apple portables.

Fastest Windows Laptop for like 3-4 years running is am Apple.

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Re: Nook Color

Postby fuzzygeek » Tue Mar 15, 2011 3:57 pm

knaughty wrote:They're buying MacBook Pros & loading XP.


This doesn't seem prudent. But then, inertia is a powerful decision maker.
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Re: Nook Color

Postby knaughty » Tue Mar 15, 2011 4:01 pm

fafhrd wrote:
knaughty wrote:According to the Android forum, there's about 50 apps and 50 games for Honeycomb, which us the only tablet optimized version of Android.


Why are you counting Honeycomb specific apps only? There are about 250k android apps, most of which will run on Honeycomb tablets.

Possibly ignorance of Android, but my experience is that tablet optimisation matters.

My experience of iPhone apps on my iPad is that they work fine, but they're still smartphone apps that happen to run on an iPad, rather than tablet apps.

I edit spreadsheets on my iPad, I wouldn't do that on my iPhone. Go look at the demo movies on the Apple website for iMovie and GarageBand on the iPad. The iWork apps are also pretty damn amazing. I keep being very, very tempted to buy the various iPad remakes of 80's and 90's electronic music hardware. None of these are "phone capable" things.

Your Honeycomb tablet being able to run your Android phone apps is definitely a seriously good feature. But there is (currently) a real shortage of tablet apps.
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Re: Nook Color

Postby fafhrd » Tue Mar 15, 2011 4:04 pm

Yeah if I had to buy a laptop again (which thankfully I haven't in the past 6 years or so) I'd most likely buy an MBP. I have no particular issues with the desktop/laptop OSs (Finder and XCode were both abominations when last I used OSX, but there are alternatives to those bundled applications), and I imagine I could dualboot or switch to Win7 as well.

Their phoneOS/tablet on the other hand I can't imagine going back to mostly because I can't imagine living without widgets on my phone, and am none too thrilled about anyone other than me thinking they should decide what I can and can't run on it. I am free to install something dumb on my desktop and shoot myself in the foot if I'm not careful, I have no sympathy for Job's belief that I shouldn't have the same ability on my phone. I really wish most android users weren't so focused on what Google does with their Market too, it's not like it takes anything special to access any of the other app markets from their phones, or just download and install apps directly like they do on their desktop computers. Google's Market is just a convenience, it's not meant to be the only means of getting apps on your phone.
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