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[25]Heroic Chimaeron Healing Problem

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[25]Heroic Chimaeron Healing Problem

Postby superworm » Wed Mar 09, 2011 9:45 am

So we're having some issues with tank healing in this fight. We use 1 dps tank, 2 tanks, 7 healers and 15 dps. 2 healers are dedicated to tank healing and 1 druid is putting hots on tanks. The problem happened when feud started. The healers reported that they were unable to top the tank before the boss's first hit, which causeed some trouble. Generally when I (DK tank) was doing feud tanking, I use Death Pact or Lich Borne to heal myself to full, and when another tank was doing feud tanking, he had to use one of the major CDs to survive. Later we assigned 3 priests rotate CDs on him, which somewhat worked for us, however that didn't seem right to me.
Do you guys also have this kind of problem?
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Re: [25]Heroic Chimaeron Healing Problem

Postby baleogthefierce » Wed Mar 09, 2011 9:57 am

superworm wrote:So we're having some issues with tank healing in this fight. We use 1 dps tank, 2 tanks, 7 healers and 15 dps. 2 healers are dedicated to tank healing and 1 druid is putting hots on tanks. The problem happened when feud started. The healers reported that they were unable to top the tank before the boss's first hit, which causeed some trouble. Generally when I (DK tank) was doing feud tanking, I use Death Pact or Lich Borne to heal myself to full, and when another tank was doing feud tanking, he had to use one of the major CDs to survive. Later we assigned 3 priests rotate CDs on him, which somewhat worked for us, however that didn't seem right to me.
Do you guys also have this kind of problem?


We just had all our paladins glyph for reduced cooldown lay on hands and set up a rotation. Feud goes off, tank gets a LoH before the first melee swing hits, healers don't have to scramble to top off the raid and the tank.
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Re: [25]Heroic Chimaeron Healing Problem

Postby Arianne » Wed Mar 09, 2011 12:13 pm

We use LoH or Guardian Spirit depending on what our raid comp is. The healers have 5 seconds to heal the tank to full before the first melee hit and massacre takes 5 seconds to cast, so they should have time to get into position and start casting a big heal (DL, GH, HT, GHW) to land just after massacre.
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Re: [25]Heroic Chimaeron Healing Problem

Postby PsiVen » Wed Mar 09, 2011 5:49 pm

Our 10m uses a LoH/GS rotation for this as well, since we had similar issues with the tank getting gibbed by the first hit.
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Re: [25]Heroic Chimaeron Healing Problem

Postby superworm » Wed Mar 09, 2011 7:21 pm

Mmmm... So it's ordinary to use some CDs on the feud tank. It somewhat feels weird because this way the fight seems to favor a DK tank.
As a DK tank, I can almost heal myself to full without any other help after massacre (though missed Death Strike is somewhat annoying). Also eating DA during feud is kind of a joke, as the 2 Death Strikes after massacre puts up a shield more than 120k strength on me, and DK have enough 1 min CDs to use, while our poor bear has to use a major CD to survive the DA during feud.
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Re: [25]Heroic Chimaeron Healing Problem

Postby Dasphunk » Thu Mar 10, 2011 2:02 am

Also, if any of your tanks have their 4pc bonus. They can use their 50% cd right when he starts casting feud. It will save your tank from the first attack after feud and as well as the DA during Feud.
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Re: [25]Heroic Chimaeron Healing Problem

Postby PsiVen » Thu Mar 10, 2011 3:39 am

superworm wrote:Also eating DA during feud is kind of a joke, as the 2 Death Strikes after massacre puts up a shield more than 120k strength on me, and DK have enough 1 min CDs to use, while our poor bear has to use a major CD to survive the DA during feud.


Does it really? Our DK was saying that Massacre damage wasn't counted by Death Strike, so it wasn't getting good modifiers on this fight. He's usually DPS spec for this though.
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Re: [25]Heroic Chimaeron Healing Problem

Postby superworm » Thu Mar 10, 2011 6:16 am

PsiVen wrote:
superworm wrote:Also eating DA during feud is kind of a joke, as the 2 Death Strikes after massacre puts up a shield more than 120k strength on me, and DK have enough 1 min CDs to use, while our poor bear has to use a major CD to survive the DA during feud.


Does it really? Our DK was saying that Massacre damage wasn't counted by Death Strike, so it wasn't getting good modifiers on this fight. He's usually DPS spec for this though.


As long as I don't have the "Break" debuff on me, the self heal is quite powerful. Well, the DS tooltip is now saying it heals 15% of the damage we take in the former 5 seconds. Anyway, my combatlog is telling me that the heal have over 70k at maximum. This also puts on a shield of generally more strength (depending on mastery). You can also rotate Death Pact and Lich Borne at feuds. Our strategy works in the way that I only tank every other feud.
But my low hit and expertise is sometimes annoying, so I still ask the healers to care about me, in case that the DS doesn't land. (Missed DS doesn't cost runes, but you only have time to cast 3 spells with GCD before the first hit).

Edited for Death Strike number.
Last edited by superworm on Thu Mar 10, 2011 10:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [25]Heroic Chimaeron Healing Problem

Postby baleogthefierce » Thu Mar 10, 2011 6:32 am

superworm wrote:Mmmm... So it's ordinary to use some CDs on the feud tank. It somewhat feels weird because this way the fight seems to favor a DK tank.
As a DK tank, I can almost heal myself to full without any other help after massacre (though missed Death Strike is somewhat annoying). Also eating DA during feud is kind of a joke, as the 2 Death Strikes after massacre puts up a shield more than 120k strength on me, and DK have enough 1 min CDs to use, while our poor bear has to use a major CD to survive the DA during feud.


Paladins are just as OP as DKs on this fight, if not more so. For every Feud phase you can either dump a full strength WoG into yourself or the other tank (depending on who is tanking the current Feud) right off the bat to help top them off. We have an emergency LoH that can be used to top off either tank in case of healers falling behind during Feud. We offer a 20% damage reduction for the double attack (either DP when we are tanking or DG when the other tank has the Feud). We can offer double attack protection during Feud through GotAK when we are tanking, and HoS when the 2nd tank is tanking. We can also eat a double attack safely with a Bubble/taunt in an emergency. We have Holy Radiance available for every Feud phase, and our 20% DG cooldown for the second tank also doubles as a raid cooldown for preventing slime damage. We have Ardent Defender available for a double attack in phase 1, and again as a means of prolonging our time alive in phase 2.
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Re: [25]Heroic Chimaeron Healing Problem

Postby superworm » Thu Mar 10, 2011 9:02 am

baleogthefierce wrote:
Paladins are just as OP as DKs on this fight, if not more so. For every Feud phase you can either dump a full strength WoG into yourself or the other tank (depending on who is tanking the current Feud) right off the bat to help top them off. We have an emergency LoH that can be used to top off either tank in case of healers falling behind during Feud. We offer a 20% damage reduction for the double attack (either DP when we are tanking or DG when the other tank has the Feud). We can offer double attack protection during Feud through GotAK when we are tanking, and HoS when the 2nd tank is tanking. We can also eat a double attack safely with a Bubble/taunt in an emergency. We have Holy Radiance available for every Feud phase, and our 20% DG cooldown for the second tank also doubles as a raid cooldown for preventing slime damage. We have Ardent Defender available for a double attack in phase 1, and again as a means of prolonging our time alive in phase 2.


I know it's about tanking mechanism. It's good to know, however, that people don't think DK is getting unfair advantage. I myself is not a fan of playing some IMBA class.
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Re: [25]Heroic Chimaeron Healing Problem

Postby inthedrops » Thu Mar 10, 2011 10:11 am

We do healing at the start of Feud a little bit differently than what I've read so far. I'll use myself as the example Feud tank...

We have two paladin healers.

When Feud first starts, the Paladin healers don't collapse immediately with everyone else, but they are prepositioned in such a way that they don't have to move very far to the collapse point. Once Feud starts, they stay where they are and get the tank mostly topped off in that first 5 seconds. That usually means a well timed Divine Light, followed by another, and while running in they do a Holy Shock. This gets the Feud tank topped off enough to survive the first melee hit.

I use my weak cooldown first (Divine Protection) when Feud starts. A couple of seconds after I get Break, I then use my large cooldown and I also get a Sacrifice from one of the Palaidns (I get one Sacrifice per Feud that I tank). I don't know the timing, but they are smart enough to get Sacrifice on me early enough that it expires before Massacre.

This means that:
A) I survive the first hit fine.
B) I still have my 20% damage reduction for the second hit (Break).
C) I have Ardent Defender or Guardian of Ancient Kings + Hand of Sacrifice for the remainder of Feud when I have Break.

I have no issues living with this setup and the nice thing about it is that it allows the use of LoH at the phase transition.

I am not sure how challenging it is for the healers during that first 5 seconds of Feud but they seem to get it done 90% of the time. Only occasioanally do I notice that I didn't get completely topped off and at that point just hope for some decent RNG.

I *RARELY* die during Feud's and can't remember the last time it happened.
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Re: [25]Heroic Chimaeron Healing Problem

Postby Ezelyn » Fri Mar 11, 2011 1:25 am

I dont know how many paladin you've got in your raid and how many feud phase is there in 25man.
But in 10man we really abuse of LoH on the starting feud.

The tank can use one if he hasnt any breach. Your 1-2 holypallys can take care of 1-2 other feudphase. That means you have maybe 1 or 2 feud without LoH. On these ones, our tankladin use ardent def juste before the first strike (so we dont really bother on topping him in 5sec) or sometimes its holypriest's wings (just before the first strike too).
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Re: [25]Heroic Chimaeron Healing Problem

Postby superworm » Fri Mar 11, 2011 1:53 am

We have been using GS for our bear. Generally we get 4~5 feuds before pushing into P2 so that's already enough as we have 3 holy priests to faceroll-heal 3 groups.

BTW, I think holy priests are somewhat overpowered in this fight. They can easily keep 1 group of people alive with proper talents while our druid is struggling to keep up 3 people (including herself). In fact our druid healer who is in 359/372 gear prefers to use his priest alt (346 geared) to heal this encounter, and it worked out great.
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