Remove Advertisements

New Protection HoPo mechanics in 4.1

Warning: Theorycraft inside.

Moderators: Fridmarr, Worldie, Aergis, theckhd

New Protection HoPo mechanics in 4.1

Postby Jeremoot » Thu Mar 03, 2011 6:23 pm

Grand Crusader will now generate a charge of Holy Power if the Avenger Shield it procs is used within 6 seconds.


Yay for Grand Crusader becoming more interesting? Where this will place Grand Crusader in a single target rotation is something I can't wait to see.

The probability of getting a Grand Crusader proc when AS is off cooldown in three crusader strikes with 2% hit and 10 expertise is 40.1%, or ~40%, that's a pretty significant change to our Holy Power generation.
Last edited by Jeremoot on Sun Mar 13, 2011 10:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Jeremoot
 
Posts: 434
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 5:36 pm

Re: New Protection HoPo mechanics in 4.1

Postby amityafflict » Thu Mar 03, 2011 11:29 pm

Given that J only edges out AS slightly this definitely should see it boosted above J. Has anyone tested whether the 6 second buff applies when AS is off cooldown?

CS vs AS(P) will have to wait for sims, the only time this would occur is if the CS is the 3rd holy power since both CS and AS(P) will be up after the sotr. New rotation should look like sotr>cs>as(P)>J>as given that the buff can apply when AS is off cooldown. Also unless there is something I've overlooked, there are 5 CS opportunities between AS since it's a 15 second cooldown (5th one AS comes up same time as CS) and thats not including if it procs of a cs leading to sotr.
amityafflict
 
Posts: 11
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2010 8:54 am

Re: New Protection HoPo mechanics in 4.1

Postby Flex » Thu Mar 03, 2011 11:41 pm

GC procs a short duration buff whenever it happens, to trigger the aura effect I'd imagine, so if I'd bet on it I'd imagine they'll be modifying that.
We live in a society where people born on third base constantly try to steal second, yet we expect people born with two strikes against them to hit a homerun on the first pitch.
User avatar
Flex
 
Posts: 7500
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2007 7:29 am

Re: New Protection HoPo mechanics in 4.1

Postby Vuarnet » Fri Mar 04, 2011 1:45 am

I'm definitely looking forward to GC being more useful/interesting; this might actually turn out to be an adequate enough "fix" to the issues brought up over the past week regarding the [HP hoarding vs. not having the necessary HP for any kind of useful WoG] thing to make it virtually a non-issue for prot (at least that's my initial gut feeling).

Would these GC procs, in addition to EG procs used for SotR/Inq, be enough to fill up our gcds adequately though? (IIRC AS>J throws a wrench into our "rotation" over time.) Could buffing the GC proc rate to ~30% ensure that we don't get saddled with potentially unforeseen downtime issues, or would that be just asking too much from Blizz at this point (my guess would be 'yes')? I mean, is this the dawn of a truly non-rotational, priority-based playstyle for prot pallies, or is this going to wind up just being a downtime-creating mana-sink?

Either way, I'm looking forward to seeing how it plays out on the ptr and on live (if it makes it that far...*crosses fingers*). "Useful" GC procs and a more "priority-based" playstyle are long overdue for our toolkit here now in Cata imo...not to mention that it also goes a long way to redress the 4.0.6 HP "bug fix" (/angryface...still...).
Last edited by Vuarnet on Fri Mar 04, 2011 2:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
fuzzygeek wrote:Admittedly you can't outgear the criminally stupid, but you can try to mitigate the effects.
Vuarnet
 
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2011 12:39 am

Re: New Protection HoPo mechanics in 4.1

Postby Arincia » Fri Mar 04, 2011 1:58 am

Personally i see this as QoL talent and around a zero sum gain. We would only carry about maximum HP generation if we wanted max threat at the expense of survival. That said we currently only care about HP as a means to get HS up from a pure max survival/progression orientation. The cd resolution is going to be fairly complicated.
You want it ahead of CS (free HP generation) but CS is ahead of of judgment so this means less overall judgments. (so less mana which may be a problem ill wait on siming to see if it is). Overall i feel it's just a way for blizzard to toss a cookies (yay more HP) but at the cost of getting their original vision for paladin tanking (empty cds and rewarding trading survival stats for threat on qol for rotation).

Either way if we say that we can push back judgment without mana detriments then this certainly has a appeal to consider exp soft cap (480 ratings with sot which is 2.67% pre DR dodge/parry) which has our HP production 1.4% more then before the 4.0.6 change to cs/hp generation. Still i see it clashing with judgment to much and making it barely a gain for HP production. It's more likely a qol for having less hp problems then currently but its still tied to the base problem which is relying on hit and exp to get cs to hit to have a chance to get the proc.
That said i don't think it will really be a big change as we hope it could be
Image
Arincia
 
Posts: 240
Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 10:13 am

Re: New Protection HoPo mechanics in 4.1

Postby Vuarnet » Fri Mar 04, 2011 2:55 am

Arincia wrote:Personally I see this as QoL talent and around a zero sum gain

I'm totally cool with some "QoL"-lovin' lol :D

Arincia wrote:The cd resolution is going to be fairly complicated. You want it ahead of CS (free HP generation) but CS is ahead of of judgment so this means less overall judgments. (so less mana which may be a problem ill wait on siming to see if it is).

So I'm thinking something along the lines of: Sotr/Inq(whatev)>AS(P)>CS>J>AS...>long-cd-fillers. If it really got to be a mana issue (which, to mirror your concern, I think it will), JotW could simply have it's duration/mana refund increased to, I dunno, say 40%base/15sec, just for argument's sake.

Arincia wrote:Overall i feel it's just a way for blizzard to toss a cookies (yay more HP) but at the cost of getting their original vision for paladin tanking (empty cds and rewarding trading survival stats for threat on qol for rotation).

Agreed, although if "empty cds" (read: excess downtime) really was part of their vision and is the cost for us to have a more interesting/engaging playstyle, I'm all for it (provided it doesn't degenerate into the sort of ridiculousness that was the gcd-capped 3.2 ret dps *cough*faceroll*cough* rotation :lol:

Arincia wrote:That said i don't think it will really be a big change as we hope it could be.

Eh...yeah, probably...I'm gonna try and remain "cautiously optimistic" for now. Even if it only serves as a minor quality of life change, that's still more than we were looking at just a few days ago.
fuzzygeek wrote:Admittedly you can't outgear the criminally stupid, but you can try to mitigate the effects.
Vuarnet
 
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2011 12:39 am

Re: New Protection HoPo mechanics in 4.1

Postby culhag » Fri Mar 04, 2011 4:16 am

Arincia wrote:so this means less overall judgments. (so less mana which may be a problem ill wait on siming to see if it is).

More importantly, less Judgements means less chance to get Sacred Duty, which makes me wonder if it will really be significant change.
User avatar
culhag
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 1728
Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2008 7:50 am
Location: France

Re: New Protection HoPo mechanics in 4.1

Postby TheRenaissanceMan » Fri Mar 04, 2011 4:42 am

I don't see there being much of a conflict between GC procs and CS, considering that CS is what procs GC. The only scenario where you'd have a GC proc up with CS off CD is if CS procs a GC when that CS generates the third HP, allowing a finisher followed by the GC proc.

The more salient question, I think, is if GC procs if AS is off CD, which might require prioritizing AS over judgement if that's not the case, in order to free up the chance to proc.
TheRenaissanceMan
 
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 3:48 pm

Re: New Protection HoPo mechanics in 4.1

Postby mclem » Fri Mar 04, 2011 5:58 am

One other question is whether the HP procs if the Avenger's Shield misses. I would assuming from the phrasing that it does, but, well, we've been there before, and it's probably worth bearing in mind.

Guaranteed HP proc from Grand Crusader vs. High damage proc which gets wasted on miss from Sacred Duty is an interesting question, and also starts to raise some points about the potential for hit stats to give some small amount of survivability.
mclem
 
Posts: 447
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2007 6:12 pm

Re: New Protection HoPo mechanics in 4.1

Postby theckhd » Fri Mar 04, 2011 6:10 am

There's already an established thread on 4.1: http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.com/ ... &start=285

That said, I'm going to leave this one open, because I think there's a decent bit of discussion to be had on the technical side of this change, which would be lost in the noise of the General thread. Just keep in mind that this is the forum for math and theorycrafting, so let's keep the discussion appropriate. For example, discussing how this change affects our priority system or how the proc mechanics actually work on PTR is fine; posts that just gush about how great (or bad) a change it is with no other substance are not.

It should be relatively easy to add this into my MATLAB model, so I can probably have preliminary results posted in a few hours.
"Theck, Bringer of Numbers and Pounding Headaches," courtesy of Grehn|Skipjack.
MATLAB 5.x, Simcraft 6.x, Call to Arms 6.0, Talent Spec & Glyph Guide 5.x, Blog: Sacred Duty
User avatar
theckhd
Moderator
 
Posts: 7750
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:06 pm
Location: Harrisburg, PA

Re: New Protection HoPo mechanics in 4.1

Postby Vuarnet » Fri Mar 04, 2011 7:15 am

TheRenaissanceMan wrote:might require prioritizing AS over judgement

I assume a GC proc'd AS will/should take priority over judgement. If that winds up being the case and we find (more?) gaps in our "rotation" that need to be filled with Cons/HW...with judgement even further down on the priority list we will almost certainly have mana issues (unless, of course, we're using SoI).

Culhag wrote:less chance to get Sacred Duty

Hmm, didn't even think of that - since 4.0.6 I haven't really been spending much mental bandwidth worrying about SD procs. I'm really interested to see what the MATLAB model shows regarding this change, both for potential priority changes as well as the effect on SD. At some point (this weekend hopefully) I'll try and jump into the ptr and see what I can see...probably going to just be the usual though, "too early to tell."

mclem wrote:question is whether the HP procs if the Avenger's Shield misses...starts to raise some points about the potential for hit stats to give some small amount of survivability.

For practical application, I would think not. As far as AS is concerned, IIRC, all we have to take into account is our hit rating (or lack thereof), which means we have a 92% chance (if we're at the 0% hit nirvana) to land a successful GC-proc'd "frisbee" and generate our free HP, as opposed to our only 70ish-80ish%(?) chance per CS/HotR to generate our HP the conventional way. And worst-case scenario, if I didn't remember correctly and AS is on the spell hit table, that's still no less than a 91% chance (at 0% hit) to land a successful GC-proc'd "frisbee" and generate our free HP thanks to TbtL.
fuzzygeek wrote:Admittedly you can't outgear the criminally stupid, but you can try to mitigate the effects.
Vuarnet
 
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2011 12:39 am

Re: New Protection HoPo mechanics in 4.1

Postby theckhd » Fri Mar 04, 2011 7:18 am

Preliminary results, "AS+" indicates AS iff Grand Crusader buff is active :

4.1 Grand Crusader:
Code: Select all
939/SoT build

                             DPS            TPS            SHPS            E    E    SotR  AS 
  Q#  Priority               V=100%  V=30%  V=100%  V=30%  V=100%  V=30%   #    %    miss  cast
   1  SotR>CS>J>AS           13971   9007   41912   27022  0       0      589  11.8  177   488
   2  SotR>HotR>J>AS         12741   8120   38224   24360  0       0      569  11.4  174   506
   3  SotR>CS>AS>J           14049   9072   42147   27215  0       0      539  10.8  194   602
   4  SotR>AS>CS>J           14014   9049   42042   27147  0       0      633  12.7  160   644
   5  SotR>CS>AS+>J>AS       14031   9055   42094   27165  0       0      552  11.0  201   555
   6  SotR>AS+>CS>J>AS       14036   9057   42108   27170  0       0      565  11.3  196   560
   7  SotR>CS>J>AS>HW        14145   9199   42435   27598  0       0      221   4.4  220   487
   8  SotR>CS>J>AS>Cons>HW   14441   9374   43324   28124  0       0      121   2.4  202   493
   9  SotR>CS>AS>J>Cons>HW   14407   9366   43220   28097  0       0      118   2.4  213   597
  10  SotR>AS>CS>J>Cons>HW   14341   9329   43025   27989  0       0      189   3.8  183   653
  11  AS>SotR>CS>J>Cons>HW   14246   9272   42738   27816  0       0      228   4.6  177   667
  12  CS+>AS>SotR>J>Cons>HW  14268   9282   42804   27845  0       0      171   3.4  205   637


W39/SoI build

                             DPS            TPS            SHPS            E    E    SotR  AS 
  Q#  Priority               V=100%  V=30%  V=100%  V=30%  V=100%  V=30%   #    %    miss  cast
   1  SotR>CS>J>AS           10475   6823   35248   22778  2548    756    573  11.5  217   504
   2  SotR>HotR>J>AS          9230   5930   30458   19462  1844    331    587  11.7  220   489
   3  SotR>CS>AS>J           10448   6815   35101   22716  2504    730    591  11.8  237   580
   4  SotR>AS>CS>J           10363   6761   34784   22517  2464    705    682  13.6  226   634
   5  SotR>CS>AS+>J>AS       10387   6769   34945   22595  2523    741    577  11.5  266   520
   6  SotR>AS+>CS>J>AS       10400   6779   34965   22611  2510    733    621  12.4  240   546
   7  SotR>CS>J>AS>HW        10695   7046   35897   23443  2543    753    251   5.0  226   497
   8  SotR>CS>J>AS>Cons>HW   10807   7099   36233   23601  2540    751    152   3.0  251   486
   9  SotR>CS>AS>J>Cons>HW   10850   7142   36302   23693  2500    727    121   2.4  269   588
  10  SotR>AS>CS>J>Cons>HW   10798   7114   36079   23568  2456    700    225   4.5  237   630
  11  AS>SotR>CS>J>Cons>HW   10791   7110   36056   23554  2454    699    230   4.6  221   649
  12  CS+>AS>SotR>J>Cons>HW  10712   7058   35831   23408  2462    704    206   4.1  245   613


939/SoT build, hit-capped

                             DPS            TPS            SHPS            E    E    SotR  AS 
  Q#  Priority               V=100%  V=30%  V=100%  V=30%  V=100%  V=30%   #    %    miss  cast
   1  SotR>CS>J>AS           16358   10561  49073   31684  0       0      433   8.7  67    535
   2  SotR>HotR>J>AS         14822    9455  44466   28364  0       0      460   9.2  62    518
   3  SotR>CS>AS>J           16186   10467  48558   31400  0       0      449   9.0  75    637
   4  SotR>AS>CS>J           16088   10401  48264   31204  0       0      544  10.9  69    669
   5  SotR>CS>AS+>J>AS       16270   10516  48810   31547  0       0      445   8.9  61    592
   6  SotR>AS+>CS>J>AS       16181   10455  48543   31365  0       0      489   9.8  74    598
   7  SotR>CS>J>AS>HW        16568   10778  49705   32333  0       0      142   2.8  68    514
   8  SotR>CS>J>AS>Cons>HW   16735   10858  50205   32573  0       0       71   1.4  72    524
   9  SotR>CS>AS>J>Cons>HW   16588   10785  49766   32357  0       0       62   1.2  77    624
  10  SotR>AS>CS>J>Cons>HW   16556   10768  49668   32306  0       0      121   2.4  72    679
  11  AS>SotR>CS>J>Cons>HW   16409   10680  49229   32041  0       0      149   3.0  63    696
  12  CS+>AS>SotR>J>Cons>HW  16517   10749  49553   32249  0       0      108   2.2  60    684



4.0.6 Grand Crusader:
Code: Select all
939/SoT build

                             DPS            TPS            SHPS            E    E    SotR  AS 
  Q#  Priority               V=100%  V=30%  V=100%  V=30%  V=100%  V=30%   #    %    miss  cast
   1  SotR>CS>J>AS           14137   9118   42411   27353  0       0      514  10.3  164   516
   2  SotR>HotR>J>AS         12714   8100   38141   24300  0       0      528  10.6  165   513
   3  SotR>CS>AS>J           14110   9111   42330   27334  0       0      510  10.2  177   616
   4  SotR>AS>CS>J           13902   8979   41707   26936  0       0      655  13.1  136   657

   7  SotR>CS>J>AS>HW        14363   9339   43089   28017  0       0      215   4.3  147   524
   8  SotR>CS>J>AS>Cons>HW   14534   9434   43604   28302  0       0       88   1.8  168   528
   9  SotR>CS>AS>J>Cons>HW   14431   9382   43294   28147  0       0       97   1.9  188   622
  10  SotR>AS>CS>J>Cons>HW   14246   9270   42740   27810  0       0      192   3.8  152   652
  11  AS>SotR>CS>J>Cons>HW   14273   9289   42820   27867  0       0      188   3.8  157   668
  12  CS+>AS>SotR>J>Cons>HW  14285   9296   42856   27889  0       0      172   3.4  161   652


W39/SoI build

                             DPS            TPS            SHPS            E    E    SotR  AS 
  Q#  Priority               V=100%  V=30%  V=100%  V=30%  V=100%  V=30%   #    %    miss  cast
   1  SotR>CS>J>AS           10457   6813   35197   22751  2550    757    548  11.0  208   514
   2  SotR>HotR>J>AS          9318   5986   30700   19618  1830    322    550  11.0  202   507
   3  SotR>CS>AS>J           10397   6782   34951   22618  2507    731    597  11.9  209   576
   4  SotR>AS>CS>J           10350   6755   34751   22501  2467    707    667  13.3  196   646

   7  SotR>CS>J>AS>HW        10678   7037   35868   23427  2556    761    252   5.0  165   502
   8  SotR>CS>J>AS>Cons>HW   10794   7093   36203   23587  2547    755    125   2.5  221   504
   9  SotR>CS>AS>J>Cons>HW   10948   7206   36610   23895  2511    734    124   2.5  201   605
  10  SotR>AS>CS>J>Cons>HW   10801   7119   36103   23592  2467    707    210   4.2  181   643
  11  AS>SotR>CS>J>Cons>HW   10790   7113   36058   23566  2458    701    211   4.2  194   657
  12  CS+>AS>SotR>J>Cons>HW  10780   7104   36042   23549  2467    707    210   4.2  190   630


939/SoT build, hit-capped

                             DPS            TPS            SHPS            E    E    SotR  AS 
  Q#  Priority               V=100%  V=30%  V=100%  V=30%  V=100%  V=30%   #    %    miss  cast
   1  SotR>CS>J>AS           16320   10537  48961   31611  0       0      406   8.1  73    524
   2  SotR>HotR>J>AS         14808    9442  44423   28326  0       0      405   8.1  61    519
   3  SotR>CS>AS>J           16312   10547  48937   31640  0       0      395   7.9  67    651
   4  SotR>AS>CS>J           15997   10343  47992   31030  0       0      532  10.6  70    676

   7  SotR>CS>J>AS>HW        16502   10732  49507   32195  0       0      122   2.4  64    521
   8  SotR>CS>J>AS>Cons>HW   16812   10900  50436   32701  0       0       50   1.0  73    537
   9  SotR>CS>AS>J>Cons>HW   16782   10902  50348   32706  0       0       23   0.5  67    631
  10  SotR>AS>CS>J>Cons>HW   16516   10746  49549   32240  0       0      110   2.2  57    695
  11  AS>SotR>CS>J>Cons>HW   16505   10739  49515   32217  0       0      124   2.5  46    696
  12  CS+>AS>SotR>J>Cons>HW  16489   10727  49469   32183  0       0      115   2.3  57    666


Note that these are short sims (~5k GCDs, far too short to be accurate to more than about +/- 150 DPS). Nonetheless, these seem more or less indicative of the results. The change is more or less DPS-neutral; if anything it's a very minor improvement. There's a little too much noise in these sims to be sure, but it seems like there's at least a slight DPS advantage to prioritizing AS>J, and maybe AS+>CS. It doesn't have a significant effect on the number of empty GCDs; it reduces them a small amount for CS>AS>J, probably due to the extra SotR's cast from additional Holy Power gains. For AS>CS>J or AS+>CS>J>AS, these gains seem to be offset by the extra gaps created by prioritizing AS>CS.

Note also that at hit-cap/exp-soft-cap, there seems to be no advantage in prioritizing AS>J thanks to Sacred Duty.

I'm going to run some longer sims now to see if I can drop the variance a bit. I also want to add some more debugging tools, because some of the results seem fishy to me. Intuitively, I'd expect AS>J to outperform more reliably at low hit, where Sacred Duty gets lost fairly often. But maybe I'm overestimating that effect. Also, at low hit CS misses a lot more, which means fewer Grand Crusader procs.
"Theck, Bringer of Numbers and Pounding Headaches," courtesy of Grehn|Skipjack.
MATLAB 5.x, Simcraft 6.x, Call to Arms 6.0, Talent Spec & Glyph Guide 5.x, Blog: Sacred Duty
User avatar
theckhd
Moderator
 
Posts: 7750
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:06 pm
Location: Harrisburg, PA

Re: New Protection HoPo mechanics in 4.1

Postby theckhd » Fri Mar 04, 2011 8:23 am

A couple of longer data sets, 30k GCD each:

Code: Select all
939/SoT build
                             DPS            TPS            SHPS            E     E    SotR  AS 
  Q#  Priority               V=100%  V=30%  V=100%  V=30%  V=100%  V=30%   #     %    miss  cast
   1  SotR>CS>J>AS           14080   9078   42239   27234  0       0      3349  11.2  1056  2994
   2  SotR>HotR>J>AS         12766   8136   38299   24408  0       0      3292  11.0  1145  3026
   3  SotR>CS>AS>J           13994   9036   41983   27108  0       0      3315  11.1  1163  3587
   4  SotR>AS>CS>J           13844   8938   41532   26814  0       0      3899  13.0  1135  3796
   5  SotR>CS>AS+>J>AS       14018   9045   42054   27136  0       0      3263  10.9  1122  3267
   6  SotR>AS+>CS>J>AS       13981   9021   41943   27064  0       0      3464  11.5  1188  3390
   7  SotR>CS>J>AS>HW        14286   9291   42857   27872  0       0      1353   4.5  1101  3024
   8  SotR>CS>J>AS>Cons>HW   14454   9382   43362   28146  0       0       774   2.6  1189  2988
   9  SotR>CS>AS>J>Cons>HW   14431   9383   43293   28149  0       0       738   2.5  1135  3533
  10  SotR>AS>CS>J>Cons>HW   14361   9341   43084   28025  0       0      1130   3.8  1062  3869
  11  AS>SotR>CS>J>Cons>HW   14234   9262   42704   27786  0       0      1285   4.3  1127  3965
  12  CS+>AS>SotR>J>Cons>HW  14274   9285   42823   27856  0       0      1152   3.8  1124  3864


                             DPS            TPS            SHPS            E     E    SotR  AS 
  Q#  Priority               V=100%  V=30%  V=100%  V=30%  V=100%  V=30%   #     %    miss  cast
   1  SotR>CS>J>AS           14041   9053   42123   27160  0       0      3312  11.0  1133  2992
   2  SotR>HotR>J>AS         12784   8147   38353   24440  0       0      3306  11.0  1129  2964
   3  SotR>CS>AS>J           13989   9033   41966   27098  0       0      3357  11.2  1124  3571
   4  SotR>AS>CS>J           13862   8950   41586   26851  0       0      3877  12.9  1135  3822
   5  SotR>CS>AS+>J>AS       14038   9059   42115   27177  0       0      3269  10.9  1146  3282
   6  SotR>AS+>CS>J>AS       14007   9038   42021   27115  0       0      3437  11.5  1167  3394
   7  SotR>CS>J>AS>HW        14295   9296   42885   27888  0       0      1390   4.6  1093  2996
   8  SotR>CS>J>AS>Cons>HW   14489   9404   43468   28214  0       0       768   2.6  1058  2997
   9  SotR>CS>AS>J>Cons>HW   14427   9378   43283   28136  0       0       703   2.3  1228  3584
  10  SotR>AS>CS>J>Cons>HW   14335   9325   43007   27976  0       0      1117   3.7  1141  3870
  11  AS>SotR>CS>J>Cons>HW   14187   9232   42562   27697  0       0      1338   4.5  1107  3925
  12  CS+>AS>SotR>J>Cons>HW  14237   9262   42712   27788  0       0      1152   3.8  1119  3791


                             DPS            TPS            SHPS            E     E    SotR  AS 
  Q#  Priority               V=100%  V=30%  V=100%  V=30%  V=100%  V=30%   #     %    miss  cast
   1  SotR>CS>J>AS           14024   9043   42073   27128  0       0      3323  11.1  1157  2999
   2  SotR>HotR>J>AS         12797   8155   38391   24466  0       0      3312  11.0  1104  3006
   3  SotR>CS>AS>J           13975   9024   41926   27072  0       0      3358  11.2  1157  3570
   4  SotR>AS>CS>J           13901   8976   41704   26928  0       0      3871  12.9  1063  3847
   5  SotR>CS>AS+>J>AS       14024   9049   42071   27147  0       0      3276  10.9  1132  3280
   6  SotR>AS+>CS>J>AS       13994   9030   41981   27089  0       0      3461  11.5  1158  3399
   7  SotR>CS>J>AS>HW        14260   9274   42779   27823  0       0      1347   4.5  1171  3002
   8  SotR>CS>J>AS>Cons>HW   14518   9423   43554   28269  0       0       773   2.6  1095  3026
   9  SotR>CS>AS>J>Cons>HW   14440   9387   43321   28162  0       0       729   2.4  1164  3559
  10  SotR>AS>CS>J>Cons>HW   14351   9336   43055   28009  0       0      1149   3.8  1040  3835
  11  AS>SotR>CS>J>Cons>HW   14228   9257   42684   27773  0       0      1327   4.4  1043  3939
  12  CS+>AS>SotR>J>Cons>HW  14272   9286   42818   27858  0       0      1124   3.7  1069  3811

                             DPS            TPS            SHPS            E     E    SotR  AS 
  Q#  Priority               V=100%  V=30%  V=100%  V=30%  V=100%  V=30%   #     %    miss  cast
   1  SotR>CS>J>AS           14004   9029   42011   27087  0       0      3335  11.1  1132  2981
   2  SotR>HotR>J>AS         12745   8122   38234   24366  0       0      3306  11.0  1131  3013
   3  SotR>CS>AS>J           13997   9038   41991   27114  0       0      3279  10.9  1223  3592
   4  SotR>AS>CS>J           13846   8940   41539   26820  0       0      3902  13.0  1145  3816
   5  SotR>CS>AS+>J>AS       14061   9073   42182   27219  0       0      3275  10.9  1117  3277
   6  SotR>AS+>CS>J>AS       13989   9026   41966   27078  0       0      3471  11.6  1162  3360
   7  SotR>CS>J>AS>HW        14301   9301   42903   27903  0       0      1364   4.5  1127  3009
   8  SotR>CS>J>AS>Cons>HW   14456   9382   43368   28147  0       0       767   2.6  1149  3012
   9  SotR>CS>AS>J>Cons>HW   14439   9387   43316   28160  0       0       735   2.5  1189  3611
  10  SotR>AS>CS>J>Cons>HW   14320   9315   42959   27946  0       0      1125   3.8  1088  3836
  11  AS>SotR>CS>J>Cons>HW   14239   9266   42718   27798  0       0      1333   4.4  1058  3928
  12  CS+>AS>SotR>J>Cons>HW  14210   9245   42632   27737  0       0      1102   3.7  1212  3822
"Theck, Bringer of Numbers and Pounding Headaches," courtesy of Grehn|Skipjack.
MATLAB 5.x, Simcraft 6.x, Call to Arms 6.0, Talent Spec & Glyph Guide 5.x, Blog: Sacred Duty
User avatar
theckhd
Moderator
 
Posts: 7750
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:06 pm
Location: Harrisburg, PA

Re: New Protection HoPo mechanics in 4.1

Postby theckhd » Fri Mar 04, 2011 9:01 am

60k GCDs:
Code: Select all
                             DPS            TPS            SHPS            E     E    SotR  AS    GC   
  Q#  Priority               V=100%  V=30%  V=100%  V=30%  V=100%  V=30%   #     %    miss  cast  procs
   1  SotR>CS>J>AS           14082   9080   42245   27240  0       0      6586  11.0  2209  6050  4485
   2  SotR>HotR>J>AS         12769   8137   38308   24412  0       0      6660  11.1  2215  5993  4427
   3  SotR>CS>AS>J           13961   9014   41884   27043  0       0      6659  11.1  2386  7112  4333
   4  SotR>AS>CS>J           13887   8967   41661   26900  0       0      7780  13.0  2163  7672  4165
   5  SotR>CS>AS+>J>AS       14018   9045   42055   27136  0       0      6543  10.9  2327  6511  4398
   6  SotR>AS+>CS>J>AS       13990   9027   41971   27082  0       0      6885  11.5  2346  6806  4299
   7  SotR>CS>J>AS>HW        14276   9284   42828   27853  0       0      2754   4.6  2199  6003  4473
   8  SotR>CS>J>AS>Cons>HW   14483   9401   43450   28203  0       0      1547   2.6  2248  5996  4486
   9  SotR>CS>AS>J>Cons>HW   14418   9373   43255   28121  0       0      1417   2.4  2420  7144  4396
  10  SotR>AS>CS>J>Cons>HW   14306   9306   42920   27918  0       0      2309   3.8  2202  7622  4082
  11  AS>SotR>CS>J>Cons>HW   14208   9246   42626   27740  0       0      2594   4.3  2200  7917  4214
  12  CS+>AS>SotR>J>Cons>HW  14293   9299   42880   27898  0       0      2259   3.8  2198  7617  4259


So it seems there's still no compelling DPS-related reason to prioritize AS>J, though the DPS cost of doing so is very small.
"Theck, Bringer of Numbers and Pounding Headaches," courtesy of Grehn|Skipjack.
MATLAB 5.x, Simcraft 6.x, Call to Arms 6.0, Talent Spec & Glyph Guide 5.x, Blog: Sacred Duty
User avatar
theckhd
Moderator
 
Posts: 7750
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:06 pm
Location: Harrisburg, PA

Re: New Protection HoPo mechanics in 4.1

Postby Sur-Pseudo » Fri Mar 04, 2011 10:11 am

I'm having troubles figuring out how useful this will actually be...

We don't know if GC procs until after already queing the next ability
-CS/HotR Completes, procs GC
-(Next qued ability)
-CS/Hotr
-AS w/free HoP
-Finisher

^^ That's ideal situation, otherwise it's
-CS/HotR Completes, procs buff
-(next qued ability)
-CS/HotR Again
-Finisher (otherwise the free AS HoP is wasted)
-Cs/HotR
-AS, but buff probably gone (you'd be casting at 6 seconds, perhaps if an ability used above could get GCD Reduction through haste you can get the AS in before 6 seconds?)

Alternatively, you could push back CS/HotR to take the free Holy Power... but I don't think there's a benefit in that ? Unless its the ideal situation stated above you're not pushing back CS/HotR back 3 seconds as you'd need to do AS (instead of CS/hotR)->Finisher->CS





My concerns here are... Whats the point?
1) Can't use WOG as frequently anymore
2) Can use HoPo on Inq, so increased threat...
3) Can use HoPo on SotR, so increased threat...
4) Allows for easier Threat through Inq->SotR (perhaps allowing the inq/sotr/inq/sotr rotation to make a comeback)... so increased threat...

It also doesn't solve the issue of no HoPo on missed cs/HotR..... They still have to connect to generate HoPo, so we can still get HoPo starved by that magical ~10%+ miss chance most of us have
Last edited by Sur-Pseudo on Fri Mar 04, 2011 10:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
Sur-Pseudo
 
Posts: 117
Joined: Sat Apr 05, 2008 9:44 pm

Next

Return to Advanced Theorycraft and Calculations

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron

Remove Advertisements

Who is online

In total there is 1 user online :: 0 registered, 0 hidden and 1 guest (based on users active over the past 5 minutes)
Most users ever online was 380 on Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:28 pm

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest