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4.1 PTR

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4.1 PTR

Postby Arianne » Thu Feb 24, 2011 2:35 am

Notes from mmo-champion, therefore not guaranteed to be necessarily correct.

WoG nerfed to have a 20s CD. DG nerfed to 3 min CD. /sigh


Paladin (Forums / Cataclysm Talent Calculator / Beta Skills/Talents)
Protection

* Divine Guardian: 3 2 min cooldown


Retribution

* Divine Storm: An instant attack that causes 100% weapon damage to all enemies within 8 yards. The Divine Storm heals up to 3 party or raid members totaling 25% of the damage caused, and will grant a charge of Holy Power if it hits 4 or more targets. caused.
* Sacred Shield: When reduced below 30% health, you gain the Sacred Shield effect. The Sacred Shield absorbs [1 + 2.8 * AP] damage and increases healing received by 20%. Lasts 15 sec. This effect cannot occur more than once every 60 30 sec.


Holy

* Divine Light: 30% 33% of base mana
* Flash of Light: 27% 30% of base mana
* Walk in the Light: Increases the effectiveness of your healing spells by 10% and removes the cooldown on your Word of Glory. 10%.
* Word of Glory: 20 sec cooldown
* Aura Mastery: Causes your Concentration Aura to make all affected targets immune to Silence and Interrupt effects and improve the effect of Devotion Aura, Resistance Aura, and Retribution Aura all other auras by 100%. Lasts 6 sec.
* Conviction: Gives you a 1% bonus to damage and healing for 15 sec after causing a critical effect from a weapon swing, non-periodic spell, or ability. This effect stacks up to 3 times.
* Conviction: Gives you a 2% bonus to damage and healing for 15 sec after causing a critical effect from a weapon swing, non-periodic spell, or ability. This effect stacks up to 3 times.
* Conviction: Gives you a 3% bonus to damage and healing for 15 sec after causing a critical effect from a weapon swing, non-periodic spell, or ability. This effect stacks up to 3 times.
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Re: 4.1 PTR

Postby Iselian » Thu Feb 24, 2011 2:42 am

I didn't know that WoG was doing too much healing. For either spec. Not that there's a trade-off or anything.

Well, at least we can have other tanks stop crying about our WoG spam?

Edit:: Of course, this is still datamined data and not blue text. Here's to hoping?
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Re: 4.1 PTR

Postby Noradin » Thu Feb 24, 2011 3:25 am

So it will turn into a coouldown that we save for emergencies now?
Why is Blizzard always heaping talents on certain spells just to realize these spells get to strong afterwards then nerfing the base spell down to uselessness?
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Re: 4.1 PTR

Postby culhag » Thu Feb 24, 2011 3:46 am

Word of Glory: 20 sec cooldown

So we could only do it once every two or three rotations (depending on CS misses)
And Eternal Glory would just amount to one free ShoR every minute, at best.
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Re: 4.1 PTR

Postby Gaxby » Thu Feb 24, 2011 3:48 am

culhag wrote:
Word of Glory: 20 sec cooldown

So we could only do it once every two or three rotations (depending on CS misses)
And Eternal Glory would just amount to one free ShoR every minute, at best.


To me, this doesn't make too much sense. I'm not assuming anything until I see a blue post confirming this.
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Re: 4.1 PTR

Postby Macra » Thu Feb 24, 2011 3:56 am

So this puts 1-2 HoPo WoG in line for being worthless? Also 30% chance for a free shield slam doesn't seem worth the talents anymore. We'll see how everything pans out in the end though.. Hopefully if this goes through they'll return our HoPo on CS miss.
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Re: 4.1 PTR

Postby Fetzie » Thu Feb 24, 2011 4:21 am

Warrior//Arms
# Rallying Cry *New* (Level 83) - Temporarily grants you and all party or raid members within 30 yards 20% of maximum health for 10 sec. After the effect expires, the health is lost. 3 min cooldown, Instant

Hopefully DG will get the same treatment and become baseline and affect the paladin that casts it, to make it equal in power.
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Re: 4.1 PTR

Postby Darielle » Thu Feb 24, 2011 4:26 am

Why would DG be baseline? Holy brings AM, Ret brings a lot, and we have solid 81-85 abilities.

A WoG change was clearly in the cards. It wasn't meant to be "spammed", we didn't appear to be balanced around it being "spammed", and they're not balancing us around "spamming" it. They want it to be occasional heal, and are enforcing that. The alternative is to get balanced around it, which would probably mean an armor/block/dr nerf.

I don't understand why people complain about reasonable changes sometimes. They're very definitely not applying a hasty massive nerfbat when balancing a situation they seem to consider is giving us too much. That's bloody rare.
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Re: 4.1 PTR

Postby sealava » Thu Feb 24, 2011 4:45 am

hmm..doesn't DK's and bears have better self healing ability's then paladins ?
any way a nerf is a nerf no mater how you look at it ...some said the same thing when Ardent Defender was nerfed " we were OP and Ardent Defender will still be good just wait till lvl 85"...
now how's Ardent Defender ....aside from the 20% Reduce damage its very much worthless aside from some well known bosses. :cry:
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Re: 4.1 PTR

Postby Repartee » Thu Feb 24, 2011 4:56 am

With 4.06 changing holy power not being generated on misses of crus strike/HotR, I'm lucky to get a 3 point WoG every 20 seconds! Part sarcasm, part truth.

I will admit back to back WoG's from EG procs is over the top and needed some balancing. Looks like we will all be using Seals of the Pure again.
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Re: 4.1 PTR

Postby Fetzie » Thu Feb 24, 2011 4:57 am

I don't understand why people complain about reasonable changes sometimes. They're very definitely not applying a hasty massive nerfbat when balancing a situation they seem to consider is giving us too much. That's bloody rare.


The warrior version affect the warrior as well as the raid, the paladin version does not. This is to stop paladins using it as another personal cooldown that has a nice knock-on effect on the raid. As is, warriors can use the 20% health increase from the new ability, then hit last stand to further enhance their health pool.
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Re: 4.1 PTR

Postby ironpants » Thu Feb 24, 2011 5:03 am

This is just the first 4.1 PTR build. With this change to WoG i expect some changes to our WoG related talents, maybe a lowered CD.
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Re: 4.1 PTR

Postby Linkie » Thu Feb 24, 2011 5:04 am

sealava wrote:hmm..doesn't DK's and bears have better self healing ability's then paladins ?
any way a nerf is a nerf no mater how you look at it ...some said the same thing when Ardent Defender was nerfed " we were OP and Ardent Defender will still be good just wait till lvl 85"...
now how's Ardent Defender ....aside from the 20% Reduce damage its very much worthless aside from some well known bosses. :cry:


They also don't have a shield or block. So it's obvious they need more self-healing. And Ardent Defender is still another 20% damage reduction cooldown, which is always good. Although I agree making use of the secondary effect is difficult. Keep in mind we have another very strong cooldown too, LoH. Not surprised Divine Guardian is getting a nerf too, that ability is ridiculously good on some fights with predictable raid damage (Nef, Cho'gall, Chimaeron, Magmaw, Ascendant Council, Conclave).
EDIT: Also keep in mind our raid-wide CD has a 100 yard range, while the warrior one only has 30 yard range. This makes a pretty big difference.

Anyway, I agree with Darielle. It's been pretty obvious a WoG nerf has been incoming for a while. With our great survivability (Strong mastery, block, shield, strong cooldowns) in addition to great selfhealing (SoI, WoG spam), we have been the best (although not by a huge margin) progression tanks for a while.

The big problem I have with this however, is the way it plays out with the recent CS/HotR not giving HP on miss nerf. A solution to the problem with miss streaks was to use a low-HP WoG, as that would renew our Holy Shield. This is no longer a good solution, and using any of our HP-finishers on less than 3 HP is a huge waste, which is a shame. Hopefully we'll be able to make Blizzard aware of this before they release 4.1 for live. Although with the way they handled/performed the HP-generation nerf, I'm not too positive.
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Re: 4.1 PTR

Postby Noradin » Thu Feb 24, 2011 5:39 am

Linkie wrote:They also don't have a shield or block. So it's obvious they need more self-healing. And Ardent Defender is still another 20% damage reduction cooldown, which is always good. Although I agree making use of the secondary effect is difficult. Keep in mind we have another very strong cooldown too, LoH. Not surprised Divine Guardian is getting a nerf too, that ability is ridiculously good on some fights with predictable raid damage (Nef, Cho'gall, Chimaeron, Magmaw, Ascendant Council, Conclave).
EDIT: Also keep in mind our raid-wide CD has a 100 yard range, while the warrior one only has 30 yard range. This makes a pretty big difference.


As said before, DG excludes us and LoH applies a debuff thus conflicting with paladin healers.
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Re: 4.1 PTR

Postby Bobness » Thu Feb 24, 2011 5:52 am

Hmm That new Warrior Talent + Last Stand is going to be somewhat surreal... does that in combination with shield wall & crit block make Warriors the go too Tank for survivng predictable burst damage ?

With regard to WOG changes, something was always going to happen, the level of noise was just too high, but it does now seem somewhat strange to have a number of talents propping up an ability which can not be used that often, outside of raiding WOG is not that hot.

Still at least once 4.2 Comes round they will catch up with our now less than optimal talents..
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