How much STR is worth today?

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How much STR is worth today?

Postby Siral » Wed Feb 23, 2011 7:55 am

The question is simple: how much STR is worth day for a tank?

This question comes in my mind because I see that a lot of items have low str value (sanguard bracers and valor pts back for example) but secondary stats higher (exp, mastery, dodge, parry, hit).

So i just want to know if it's good to lose some STR (and 25% parry rating from STR) to have higher "tanking" stats.
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Re: How much STR is worth today?

Postby inthedrops » Wed Feb 23, 2011 8:19 am

Well, I have no math to prove value one way or the other. But there are some threads on this site doing the work that show threat stat weights compared with each other. It's most likely in the advanced theory crafting forum. You should find that and study it.

Here's my personal opinion. Strength gives parry but that's not usually why people want it. Many of us still look at it as a threat stat. Threat matters in the first 30 to 60 seconds of an encounter but not too much after that. And point for point, expertise or hit will get you more bang for the buck in that time period.

While I value strength considerably more than others probably do, I'd never swap in a piece of gear that had more of it if it came at a loss to survival stats.

Put simply, if it's threat that you're wondering about, you're better off worrying about expertise and hit and letting your strength fall where it falls.

That's just my opinion.
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Re: How much STR is worth today?

Postby Meloree » Wed Feb 23, 2011 8:27 am

Siral wrote:The question is simple: how much STR is worth day for a tank?

This question comes in my mind because I see that a lot of items have low str value (sanguard bracers and valor pts back for example) but secondary stats higher (exp, mastery, dodge, parry, hit).

So i just want to know if it's good to lose some STR (and 25% parry rating from STR) to have higher "tanking" stats.


Strength is worth exactly 1/4 of a parry rating. The threat value is ignorable. It's less useful than hit or expertise for threat, and we're all advocating ignoring them, too.
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Re: How much STR is worth today?

Postby theckhd » Wed Feb 23, 2011 8:32 am

Technically 26.25% of a parry rating, because of Kings.
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Re: How much STR is worth today?

Postby Meloree » Wed Feb 23, 2011 8:34 am

theckhd wrote:Technically 26.25% of a parry rating, because of Kings.


I stand corrected.
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Re: How much STR is worth today?

Postby wrathblood » Wed Feb 23, 2011 10:54 am

Also worth noting is that STR will increase your SP, providing more self-healing from SOI and WoG. If you use those a lot, then the value of STR could conceivably get as high as 0.5 of what Mastery is worth, or even higher, but that involves a host of assumptions on things like how much blockable damage you take per swing and overheal%.
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Re: How much STR is worth today?

Postby theckhd » Wed Feb 23, 2011 11:02 am

I still mean to get back to that calculation (comparing DTPS and Self-healing between STR, AGI, Dodge, Parry, and Mastery), but it got put on the back burner while we iron out the last few kinks with the analytical MATLAB rotation model. The good news is that I've got it mostly worked out, other than a bug with SotR that I wasn't able to track down. The bad news is that I haven't had time at all this week to look at it.
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Re: How much STR is worth today?

Postby wrathblood » Wed Feb 23, 2011 11:07 am

That's ok, Theck. Btw, we all still think you're awesome.
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Re: How much STR is worth today?

Postby Reejin » Wed Feb 23, 2011 11:17 am

I think the bigger question would be what is worth more to us Str or Agil (all things considered e.g. buffs), since your going to get one of Str, Agil or Int anyways.
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Re: How much STR is worth today?

Postby wrathblood » Wed Feb 23, 2011 1:21 pm

Depends on a variety of things, but the two biggest are: How big a chunk of incoming damage is avoidable melee swings vs how often do you cast WoG and use SoI. On a fight with wimpy incoming melee damage where you can use WoG and SoI the whole time, STR will win. Reversing those, AGIL will win. Generally speaking, taking everything into account, for someone who uses SoI and WoG pretty often, I'd say AGIL and STR are generally even.

FWIW, STR is a lot better for threat.
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Re: How much STR is worth today?

Postby Koatanga » Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:01 pm

I value STR much more highly than AGI, because AGI really only works with avoidable hits. For unavoidable physical damage and for spell damage, STR wins due to the contribution to WoG and SoI.
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Re: How much STR is worth today?

Postby theckhd » Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:19 pm

By the way, the old version of the calculation is further down the forum in this thread. The primary changes needed are just to update for the new rotation, which means:
-calculate the mean number of CS casts to gain 3 Holy Power, which gives you the Mean Time Between Wogging (MTBW)
-figure out the rate at which we make SoI-proccing attacks based on the new seal mechanics
-from those two, figure out the net HPS benefit per point of Strength

All of the avoidance/mastery calculations should still be about right, they just need to be compiled in one location. My plan was to do that in the [Derivations] thread since that seemed like the obvious place to put it all.
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