Rift

Non-WoW game discussions

Moderators: Fridmarr, Worldie, Aergis, Aubade

Re: Rift!

Postby Eaglestrike » Mon Feb 21, 2011 7:51 pm

Vanifae wrote:
Loras wrote:And biggest concern is endgame. I appreciate Rift fans trying to defend it and saying "we haven't seen it yet, I'm sure it'll be great, don't make fast and wrong conclusions" etc, but come on, open your eyes, enter a capital city and browse the random vendors. Badge gear, 50-100+ badges per item piece, badges are obtained from heroic instances. And that's one of the reasons I got so bored from WoW - ever since they introduced the badge system in TBC, they are sticking to it like a hungry dog to a bone... Doing the same old cycle, for every character you have (I'm not a PvP player, so I'm stuck with PvE :) ), for years and years, just gets incredibly monotonous, and Blizzard doesnt seem to think that's a problem. On the other hand, I just won't pay and switch to just another absolutely similar grind, with different textures... Quests + dungeons to get Rep, buy gear with Rep, use that gear + quest rewards to get in heroics, farm heroics like crazy for badges, use badges to get gear, get enough gear to enter a raid, and then just keep going on. Rifts are no difference, they just drop more "badges" from a different kind. Why, TRION, why :(

Well then what do you suggest would be a better method of gear acquisition?


Would like to know this as well.

Gear acquisition has always been terrible in an MMO. Not until the badge system did I see a game go from "terrible" to "decent/good". The fact that even if I go 4 weeks getting shit for drops from a raid I can still be getting some upgrades is wonderful in comparison to simply going 4 weeks without getting shit from a raid.
Eaglestrike
 
Posts: 423
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 3:29 am

Re: Rift!

Postby Skye1013 » Tue Feb 22, 2011 12:10 am

Just to play a little devil's advocate...

1: You could have each boss drop certain item tokens that anyone would be able to trade in (as opposed to the tier tokens useable only by 3-4 classes.) Thereby eliminating "wasted" drops until everyone has that piece of gear.

2: Implement a vendor that allows you to trade armor pieces (so to use WoW for an example... if only cloth drops, and for some reason you don't have a clothy in the raid, everyone /rolls for "greed" or however you want to determine loot, then that person can go to said vendor, and switch out cloth boots of springing and striding +2 for plate boots of awesome tank stats +2.)

Downside to either of those... it reduces things like Maelstrom Crystals, since nearly every drop from a boss would be useable by someone, unless the entire raid has that slot upgraded already.

That being said, I have no real issues with the JP/VP system, though I think what they did in LK was a little extreme with 4 different badges towards the end.
"me no gay, me friends gay, me no like you call me gay, you dumb dumb" -bldavis
"Here are the values that I stand for: I stand for honesty, equality, kindness, compassion, treating people the way you wanna be treated, and helping those in need. To me, those are traditional values. That’s what I stand for." -Ellen Degeneres
"I'm not going to censor myself to comfort your ignorance." -Jon Stewart
Horde: Clopin Dylon Sharkbait Xiaman Metria Metapriest
Alliance: Schatze Aleks Deegee Baileyi Sotanaht Danfer Shazta Rawrsalot Roobyroo
User avatar
Skye1013
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 3984
Joined: Tue May 18, 2010 5:47 am
Location: JBPH-Hickam, Hawaii

Re: Rift!

Postby Solare » Tue Feb 22, 2011 12:31 am

Or go a different direction with something new and original. Instead of having a dozen or more gear slots with items that each only mildly improve your performance, why don't we go back to our roots?

D&D, as I'm sure all of you are aware, is the great-grandfather of the modern MMO (with games like Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy being the grandfathers). D&D is, at it's heart, a fantasy simulator with intangible aspects incorporated for ease of play. Instead of recording and measuring how much your character can lift, how hard he or shit hits, you have a strength score. Instead of plotting your hand-eye-coordination, balance, and speed, you have a dexterity score and so on. The fundamental principles still remain at the heart of the D&D system, even in it's multiple current incarnations.

Now, did it ever really make sense to you that your armor increased your health? What about your strength? Well, perhaps for a unique item that would magically augment your strength, but to have each piece of equipment you wear be streamlined to have identical increases to your health and strength seems downright boring and mechanical. Not at all amazing and fantastical as the name, "Massively Multi-player Online Role-Playing Game" would suggest.

If any of you have paid attention to new and exciting video game innovation lately, then you haven't been paying attention to consoles or even PC games. Smart Phone, and iPad apps have been like a breath of fresh air. Like Infinity Blade. Lousy story, simple game-play, but I can't put it down. Who ever thought that dodging and parrying attacks should happen behind the scenes in a fully visualized 3-d world should be ashamed of themselves. Why don't tanks choose to dodge, or to parry, and have it be THEIR skill that determines the outcome?

If you think that's too involved, think about the dedicated set-ups hardcore players use. Their hand-eye coordination is astounding. This change would add not only immersion, but a real sense of involvement, even a sense of style. And what about crafting rules. Does it really make any sense to magically find new materials that are better than stronger than the ones you were using before? At the end of Vanilla, it was Thorium. At the end of BC, it was Khorium. At the end of Wrath it was Titanium (?). And now we have Truegold and Pyrite? Are they even trying anymore? How about a crafting system where you vary the amount of metal you want to use, you know, kind of like a real metallurgist? A little bit of this, little bit of that, and whoa! I just made this blade a little bit sharper! But more brittle. Damn, I hope it can last for a few fights. (More damage, less durability, maybe?)

And these are just a half-baked idea from an average-joe, most based off another games. If the actual professionals went with this, without being boggled down with bureaucracy and committees and red tape, imagine where games could take us.

TL;DR
Lets add to a game's immersion, instead of subtracting from it. Armor protects, weapons make things bleed, and yeah, fire burns.
Image
User avatar
Solare
 
Posts: 132
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2008 2:41 pm
Location: Sacramento, California

Re: Rift!

Postby bldavis » Tue Feb 22, 2011 1:47 am

as far as teh crafting, that is one of the reasons i love Fallen Earth

sure its basically just gather mates, hit create, log out and go to bed, log in in the morn and profit

but the sheer fact that you can do RESEARCH is a huge plus in my mind
i am always striving for that level that i can do my next research, which in turn shows me the next batch of items i can make, which urges me onward even more!

another of my favorite things is i recently made my first actual gun, in wow if you make a gun with engineering, is gather these basic mats, there ya go its done

in FE you have to make the stock, the barrel, the action, AND THEN put it together
oh an if you want a scope on it, you have to make that too

making ammo is the same thing, you have to make the gunpowder and then you can make the ammo

i tried this a little in Rift, and the crafting was a little different and nice in that you could add bonuses to stats when you created an item, be it some str to a big 2hd axe, or some endurance(rift speak for stam) for a plate chest piece

that said, if i found a game that let me tinker around like solare suggested, i would both be in heaven, and prob wanting to shoot my computer if i couldnt figure out a certain combination, but i would still love it
Image

Brekkie:Tanks are like shitty DPS. And healers are like REALLY distracted DPS
Amirya:Why yes, your penis is longer than his because you hit 30k dps in the first 10 seconds. But guess what? That raid boss has a dick bigger than your ego.
Flex:I don't make mistakes. I execute carefully planned strategic group wipes.
Levie:(in /g) It's weird, I have a collar and I dont know where I got it from, Worgen are kinky!
Levie:Drunk Lev goes and does what he pleases just to annoy sober Lev.
Sagara:You see, you need to *spread* the bun before you insert the hot dog.
User avatar
bldavis
 
Posts: 7418
Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2009 12:04 pm
Location: Searching for myself. If i get back before I return, please have me stop and wait for myself.

Re: Rift!

Postby Skye1013 » Tue Feb 22, 2011 3:53 am

@Solare

While I would love to be able to run away from a boss and it cause an attack to miss, that would likely cause a lot of game balance issues where you just kite every boss with any class and could solo anything. As far as your issue with gear. Every D&D game I've been a part of EVENTUALLY gets you completely decked out in magic items. And nothing is stopping you from only equipping gray/white items in WoW. Sure the game isn't balanced around that, but neither are the upper tiers of a TT game. It's expected that you have a certain amount of enchanted/magical items. Would it make more sense that you can only gain a dex bonus to boots and a str bonus to gloves? Maybe, but that's really not the type of game that WoW or (from what I gather) Rift is. Not all systems are created equal, and what works for TT D&D or even a single player RPG doesn't necessarily translate well into balancing an MMORPG.

@bldavis

WoW actually did have all that originally with the crafting of guns. Granted, you could buy the stock from a vendor, so it wasn't required to craft it, and as the game has progressed, it has required fewer mats like that, though I'm sure that's more a product of people whining about having to farm/craft from all different tiers of mats to create the newest weapon.
"me no gay, me friends gay, me no like you call me gay, you dumb dumb" -bldavis
"Here are the values that I stand for: I stand for honesty, equality, kindness, compassion, treating people the way you wanna be treated, and helping those in need. To me, those are traditional values. That’s what I stand for." -Ellen Degeneres
"I'm not going to censor myself to comfort your ignorance." -Jon Stewart
Horde: Clopin Dylon Sharkbait Xiaman Metria Metapriest
Alliance: Schatze Aleks Deegee Baileyi Sotanaht Danfer Shazta Rawrsalot Roobyroo
User avatar
Skye1013
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 3984
Joined: Tue May 18, 2010 5:47 am
Location: JBPH-Hickam, Hawaii

Re: Rift!

Postby Punkss2 » Tue Feb 22, 2011 7:43 am

Man...I found out about puzzles literally 3 or 4 hours before the beta ended. It was really fun getting to the cairn in Scarlet Gorge.

I will be sticking with Rogue - Sab as my main.

http://rift.incgamers.com/guides/Puzzles
Thinking of starting WOW again....
User avatar
Punkss2
 
Posts: 427
Joined: Fri Jun 12, 2009 12:55 pm
Location: The Space Olympics

Re: Rift!

Postby Punkss2 » Tue Feb 22, 2011 8:49 pm

Head start in 2 days and counting!

http://www.riftgame.com/en/headstart/index.php
Thinking of starting WOW again....
User avatar
Punkss2
 
Posts: 427
Joined: Fri Jun 12, 2009 12:55 pm
Location: The Space Olympics

Re: Rift!

Postby amh » Wed Feb 23, 2011 4:23 am

Two days? It's tomorrow. :)

Also, raiding preview: http://www.g4tv.com/games/pc/63677/rift ... g-Preview/
I used to play a paladin.
User avatar
amh
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 3012
Joined: Fri May 02, 2008 6:25 am
Location: Oh hi

Re: Rift!

Postby Punkss2 » Wed Feb 23, 2011 8:05 am

Yeah, the 10-man non-instanced raiding looks like some real fun. What I was hearing is that you will farm some easy mats for a planar lure (one use atm) that will open the raid rift. It's the fact that anyone running by can hop in and help kill the boss. I watched this whole episode, pretty interesting IMO. Be forwarned its like an hour long, also is that the same Lore that used to be on these forums? http://www.blip.tv/file/4795611
Thinking of starting WOW again....
User avatar
Punkss2
 
Posts: 427
Joined: Fri Jun 12, 2009 12:55 pm
Location: The Space Olympics

Re: Rift!

Postby Koatanga » Wed Feb 23, 2011 2:04 pm

With regard to gear acquisition, I ran ICC enough to defeat gunship 33 times. 5 times were in a 25-man raid, which means I killed that stupid event for 28 weeks minimum. Not once in all of those defeats did the shield drop.

No one is going to convince me that a badge system is worse than waiting 28 weeks for a shield that never dropped.

On my druid I killed Toravon 29 times, during which I facilitated tier gear for countless useless players. Not once did I get a drop. I bought my tier pieces with badges, and was thankful I had the opportunity to do so.

I can't count the number of times I killed Gruul on my rogue for the Dragonspine Trophy. He never got that either.

You could say that the drop system caused me to run the content over and over, thus extending the effective life of the content. After all, if I got my drops I wouldn't have to keep coming back. To some extent, that's true. However, it does not make it an enjoyable experience, or cause the content to be any fresher or less boring.

For guilds struggling to clear raid content, it provides a method to get gear to help them out. They could spend weeks working on a boss and getting nothing to improve them, or they can get some badges together to help them overcome their skill gap with a bit of gear. The cool kids still get to clear everything sooner, get gear faster, and even amass badges faster. I don't see an issue.
Retired. Koatanga, Shapely, Sultry, Doominatrix of Greenstone - Dath'Remar
Koatanga
 
Posts: 2025
Joined: Mon Nov 17, 2008 12:46 pm

Re: Rift!

Postby d503 » Wed Feb 23, 2011 2:10 pm

Punkss2 wrote:Be forwarned its like an hour long, also is that the same Lore that used to be on these forums? http://www.blip.tv/file/4795611


Yup. Josh Allen, aka Lore "from Tankspot" is the same Lore that posted here in BC. You may know him from such threads as "Post your Successes!" and the "Gear Check/Advice Thread."

/unfanboi
User avatar
d503
 
Posts: 574
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2008 12:31 pm
Location: Northern California, US

Re: Rift!

Postby Levantine » Wed Feb 23, 2011 2:15 pm

I miss when Lore was cool. Those were the days. Now he's just a sell out.
User avatar
Levantine
 
Posts: 10818
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2007 6:48 pm
Location: NQ, Aus

Re: Rift!

Postby d503 » Wed Feb 23, 2011 2:18 pm

Levantine wrote:I miss when Lore was cool. Those were the days. Now he's just a sell out.


I liked Lore before all anyone talked about was his HAIR. /sunglasses
User avatar
d503
 
Posts: 574
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2008 12:31 pm
Location: Northern California, US

Re: Rift!

Postby sahiel » Wed Feb 23, 2011 8:38 pm

After playing the last 3 betas and the open finally decided to give it a go, seems like fun and whilst it's not replacing WoW it certainly seems like it can fill a few hours when i'm not raiding with a worthwhile experience.

The soul trees and various combos are definitely interesting, and being able to customise your build to fit exactly what role you have in mind is certainly welcome, so hopefully it lives up to the enthusiasm I felt on the beta.

Most likely going to be Defiant on Keenblade shard (because screw the Guardian douchebags :P)
Image
"Definition: Love is making a connection with another person against long odds."
"Clarification: Love is making a shot to the knees of a target 300 kilometers away using an Aratech sniper rifle with a tri-light scope."
-HK-47
WoW Millionaire
User avatar
sahiel
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 1082
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2007 8:31 am
Location: St Louis, MO

Re: Rift!

Postby d503 » Wed Feb 23, 2011 9:54 pm

sahiel wrote:After playing the last 3 betas and the open finally decided to give it a go, seems like fun and whilst it's not replacing WoW it certainly seems like it can fill a few hours when i'm not raiding with a worthwhile experience.

The soul trees and various combos are definitely interesting, and being able to customise your build to fit exactly what role you have in mind is certainly welcome, so hopefully it lives up to the enthusiasm I felt on the beta.

Most likely going to be Defiant on Keenblade shard (because screw the Guardian douchebags :P)


If you get bored, the Discord boys will be on Shatterbone PVE under the guild name Depraved :)

EDIT: Defiant, ofc ;)
Last edited by d503 on Wed Feb 23, 2011 10:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
d503
 
Posts: 574
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2008 12:31 pm
Location: Northern California, US

PreviousNext

Return to Other Games

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

Who is online

In total there is 1 user online :: 0 registered, 0 hidden and 1 guest (based on users active over the past 5 minutes)
Most users ever online was 380 on Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:28 pm

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest