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Is it worth it to go 1/2 in Pursuit for 2/2 Guarded?

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Re: Is it worth it to go 1/2 in Pursuit for 2/2 Guarded?

Postby theckhd » Mon Feb 07, 2011 8:18 am

Skye1013 wrote:
theckhd wrote:And of course, overheal will reduce the total amount of threat before division as well.

What about the overheal bubble (GbtL)... does that produce threat? Or would all the overheals just be a non-factor in threat?

The overheal bubble causes a fixed amount of threat regardless of size (15 iirc, 45 after RF). So for all practical purposes, it can be ignored.
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Re: Is it worth it to go 1/2 in Pursuit for 2/2 Guarded?

Postby Gaxby » Mon Feb 07, 2011 9:04 am

theckhd wrote:This sounds like the problem has a different source, to be honest. Are we talking about a situation with nearly full Vengeance (i.e. raid boss), or low Vengeance (i.e. heroic 5-mans)?

At low Veng., the symptoms you describe are very likely; for 5-mans I generally use SoT as a result (even though I use SoI/WoG glyphs). At high Veng., it all becomes irrelevant past the first 30 seconds or so, and I can use SoI/WoG exclusively without any threat concerns. In fact, most of the time I've just been starting fights with SoI.


I'm talking about Raid Bosses of course. No one gives a shit about server-first Heroic Deadmines, right? :lol:

For some reason I'm at 170k with Kings (190k with Raid buffs including the +120 Stamina from Mixology cause I'm an Alchemist), but my Vengeance Status Bar only goes up to 13k Attack Power. Anyway, I've noticed that I may be using my Cooldowns too liberally early on in the fight and that's probably why I can't build up my Vengeance fast/quick/high enough. Maybe on Halfus that has some merit, but on non-healing intensive fights like Maloriak, I have a habit of using them as soon as they're available because I don't really use them until phase 2.

Perhaps I should try and wait until I build up my Vengeance up to a certain point (70% sounds good?) before I switch to WoG/SoI. Maybe the 30 seconds rule isn't enough and I need to watch my Vengeance level more to decide when to switch. But of course they're are some fights that require tank swaps and phase changes where I can't even get to 50%.

Finally, I'm curious of how Latency has to do with all this? If I'm spamming my hot-keys while paying attention to Quartz's GCD timer, does it still affect my threat?
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Re: Is it worth it to go 1/2 in Pursuit for 2/2 Guarded?

Postby theckhd » Mon Feb 07, 2011 2:29 pm

Gaxby wrote:I'm talking about Raid Bosses of course. No one gives a shit about server-first Heroic Deadmines, right? :lol:

Touché, good sir.

Gaxby wrote:For some reason I'm at 170k with Kings (190k with Raid buffs including the +120 Stamina from Mixology cause I'm an Alchemist), but my Vengeance Status Bar only goes up to 13k Attack Power.

Remember that Vengeance is based on 100% of your stamina, not 10% of your hit points. There was a blue post clarifying that a few weeks ago. Before the change to 14 HP/stam, those two were equivalent, but when they buffed the HP/stam coefficient they reworked Vengeance to keep tank threat output balanced.

Gaxby wrote:Anyway, I've noticed that I may be using my Cooldowns too liberally early on in the fight and that's probably why I can't build up my Vengeance fast/quick/high enough. Maybe on Halfus that has some merit, but on non-healing intensive fights like Maloriak, I have a habit of using them as soon as they're available because I don't really use them until phase 2.

Perhaps I should try and wait until I build up my Vengeance up to a certain point (70% sounds good?) before I switch to WoG/SoI. Maybe the 30 seconds rule isn't enough and I need to watch my Vengeance level more to decide when to switch. But of course they're are some fights that require tank swaps and phase changes where I can't even get to 50%.

I'm not sure what to tell you here, that could potentially be an issue. I pop GAnK on the Halfus pull, but I also tank Time Warden + Whelps (+Halfus later on, with other cooldowns running), so Vengeance stacks very quickly anyway. On most other fights, I don't pop any damage reduction cooldowns on the pull.

For example, on Nef/Ony, I tank Ony at the start, with all DPS popping cooldowns on her. I get a tricks and a misdirect, but other than that I'm on my own. I use SoI the entire fight, even on the pull. The pull is usually DP, Inq while parachute-cloaking off the edge, AW+AS, J, and usually she reaches me just as I land and the GCD is up for CS. Then I just follow standard 939: CS-Cons-CS-HW-CS-SotR-939. I usually go with SotR for the first few finishers to establish my threat lead, and then switch to WoG. Since Ony DPS is relevant, I'll generally try and be careful with Holy Power during that fight, so I'll SotR when it's "safe" just to help get her down quicker.

Unfortunately, I didn't upload a log for last night, but I'll try and sift through some of mine to find a good example of my usual pull.

Gaxby wrote:Finally, I'm curious of how Latency has to do with all this? If I'm spamming my hot-keys while paying attention to Quartz's GCD timer, does it still affect my threat?

Pressing your next key during the latency window is the only way to ensure a seamless rotation. It won't make a huge difference, but I'd estimate that you can see fluctuations of 5-10% of your total output just based on that level of efficiency. If you're not hitting your button till the GCD is up, you're incurring dead time between casts, which in some cases could be several hundred milliseconds per GCD.
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Re: Is it worth it to go 1/2 in Pursuit for 2/2 Guarded?

Postby Arizair » Sat Feb 12, 2011 3:36 pm

if you're running in to latency issues, you can also enable/increase the wow custom latency tolerance function that allows you to queue up you next ability.

personally a dropped pursuit for SotP. Running with a second tankadin using WoG/SoI setup, Seal of Truth did almost 900k more damage over one boss fight (600k censure 290k in direct seal of truth damage) though the miss rate was 12.5% vs 2.6% as well. has anyone sim'ed seal twisting?
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Re: Is it worth it to go 1/2 in Pursuit for 2/2 Guarded?

Postby Worldie » Tue Feb 15, 2011 5:19 am

You'd lose TPS by seal twisting, and quite a lot of it. Our rotation has no empty gcds (bar one every other pope's death) so by just changing seal you are losing TPS. SoT hits also do more damage than SoR anyway, so I don't see why you would want to change seal.
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Re: Is it worth it to go 1/2 in Pursuit for 2/2 Guarded?

Postby Chasey » Wed Feb 16, 2011 3:03 am

Love the info here. Picked up on a few things.
To me PoJ is a all or nothing talent and something I just have to have. Before Cata hit and we couldn't get into the ret tree I felt oddly unpaladin. I know this info isn't helpful to threat or builds but you can get a boot enchant that will do what 1/2 will do so mine as well go that route if you have to get rid of it.
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