Remove Advertisements

[10man] Wyrmbreaker

Moderators: Fridmarr, Worldie, Aergis, guillex

Re: [10man] Wyrmbreaker

Postby Hrobertgar » Wed Feb 02, 2011 1:37 pm

Note:

/cast Dvine Shield
/cast Hand of reckoning

is all that is required, you do NOT need to cancelaura Divine Shield. Divine Shield has ALWAYS allowed a paladin to continue a full set of actions, healing, dps, etc. So you can pop Divine Shield, taunt the boss, and benefit from immunity to dmg/MS stacks for 10 secs. For non-pally tanks, or a pally tank with DS on CD (but off the forebearance debuff), then maybe the Hand of protection macro with cancelaura would be usefull.

Last week, with my pally tank, we had Scion, plus the MS and Shadownova drakes. I used AS on the pull on Halfus, then turned and immediately freed Scion for the speed reduction and hit debuff on Halfus, while the other tank picked up the Shadow Nova drake. We popped Hero, burned the other drake. Meanwhile I popped my 1-min macro CD right after Halfus and Scion reached me:

\Cast Divine Protection
\cast (the raid wall talent, can't recall its name at the moment, think its actually a 2min CD)
\say raid wall active, 6 secs remaining
\cast Holy Radiance (note this is also a 1min CD, like DP, but it eats tank mana)
\use Parry trinket (the 333 ilvl BOE trinket with plus ~6% parry, and the whirlwind effect, also a 1min CD)

After I got to like 10 stacks I popped Ardent Defender, just in case, then at 13 stacks I hit Guardian of ancient Kings. Just before Guardian faded, I was at like 10% health, and 15 stacks (I believe max for normal mode), then I hit the DP/taunt macro. Boss stayed on me instead of pawning the shammy interuptor. Nether Scion tried to aggro the healers like 20 yards off, so I used shield taunt on him, and held both under bubble till the MS drake was down, whereupon the other tank and I started a normal swapping roation, boss for drake. very smooth.
Never Pug a random Troll Heroic, always wait for the guild group.

Hrobearina - 85 Healer - space goat
Hrobertgar - 85 Tank - human
Hrobernia - 85 Arcane - human
Hrobanka - 85 BM - elf
Hrobertgar
 
Posts: 704
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 2:42 pm

Re: [10man] Wyrmbreaker

Postby Belloc » Wed Feb 02, 2011 1:55 pm

Hrobertgar wrote:Note:

/cast Dvine Shield
/cast Hand of reckoning

is all that is required, you do NOT need to cancelaura Divine Shield. Divine Shield has ALWAYS allowed a paladin to continue a full set of actions, healing, dps, etc. So you can pop Divine Shield, taunt the boss, and benefit from immunity to dmg/MS stacks for 10 secs. For non-pally tanks, or a pally tank with DS on CD (but off the forebearance debuff), then maybe the Hand of protection macro with cancelaura would be usefull.



This is false. If you do not cancelaura the divine shield, the boss will target someone else after your taunt's fixate effect expires. Mobs will not attack immune targets when there are other viable, non-immune targets. This is extremely easy to test and prove.

It might not seem like a big deal on normal mode, since you're probably just tanking Halfus and he doesn't hit very hard anyway, but, when you start trying it on heroic, you'll find people getting destroyed during the 5 seconds or so that your mobs are no longer fixated on you.
User avatar
Belloc
 
Posts: 3195
Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2008 1:56 pm
Location: Silent Earth

Re: [10man] Wyrmbreaker

Postby abinning » Tue Feb 08, 2011 5:54 pm

so...
1. Shadow Nova is now cast less frequently in 10-player modes to account for fewer available interrupts there.

2. The captured drakes in this encounter now apply Dragon's Vengeance when they are killed instead of when they are freed. To account for this change, the health and damage of the drakes has been reduced, and the damage bonus gained from Dragon's Vengeance has been increased.

I guess we will actually kill drakes now? I am curious what the new health and damage bonus numbers are now.
We shall find out tonight...
abinning
 
Posts: 103
Joined: Fri Oct 17, 2008 9:00 am

Re: [10man] Wyrmbreaker

Postby Samus » Fri Feb 11, 2011 4:53 am

Yeah and how frequent is "less frequently" ?
Samus - 80 - Human Female Prot Pally - The Hackett Clan
Samus
 
Posts: 12
Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2009 5:32 am

Re: [10man] Wyrmbreaker

Postby Belloc » Fri Feb 11, 2011 9:51 am

Samus wrote:Yeah and how frequent is "less frequently" ?

He'll cast it roughly every 11-13 seconds instead of every 6-7. It should be solo interruptable now by most interrupts.
User avatar
Belloc
 
Posts: 3195
Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2008 1:56 pm
Location: Silent Earth

Re: [10man] Wyrmbreaker

Postby Hrobertgar » Mon Feb 14, 2011 12:58 pm

Divine Shield is not BOP. With Divine Shield up, you can continue to attack the boss with ALL of your abilities for the 10 secs it is up, and rebuild your threat, thus saving your interupting enhancment shammy from being pawned.

If you are also holding a drake, your Hammer of the Righteous will also help rebuild threat on it, after you use your secondary taunt to re-acquire it; thus saving your healers from getting pawned.

I am NOT advocating hitting bubble and then sitting there doing nothing for 10-secs, I am advocating bubbling, then re-building threat while bubble remains up. Try it on some of the quest mini-bosses at the end of twilight highlands with 700k health.

As long as you continue to use your abilities through Divine Shield, you will still generate threat, just not quite as much threat as you would without the shield due to there being no blocks while immune.
Never Pug a random Troll Heroic, always wait for the guild group.

Hrobearina - 85 Healer - space goat
Hrobertgar - 85 Tank - human
Hrobernia - 85 Arcane - human
Hrobanka - 85 BM - elf
Hrobertgar
 
Posts: 704
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 2:42 pm

Re: [10man] Wyrmbreaker

Postby Belloc » Mon Feb 14, 2011 1:52 pm

Hrobertgar wrote:Divine Shield is not BOP. With Divine Shield up, you can continue to attack the boss with ALL of your abilities for the 10 secs it is up, and rebuild your threat, thus saving your interupting enhancment shammy from being pawned.

If you are also holding a drake, your Hammer of the Righteous will also help rebuild threat on it, after you use your secondary taunt to re-acquire it; thus saving your healers from getting pawned.

I am NOT advocating hitting bubble and then sitting there doing nothing for 10-secs, I am advocating bubbling, then re-building threat while bubble remains up. Try it on some of the quest mini-bosses at the end of twilight highlands with 700k health.

As long as you continue to use your abilities through Divine Shield, you will still generate threat, just not quite as much threat as you would without the shield due to there being no blocks while immune.


Yes, you can continue building reduced threat, but you cannot hold aggro while under the effects of divine shield. Bosses will not attack immune targets. Instead, the boss and drakes will switch to your DPS and attempt to kill them while you are bubbled.

So, after your ~3 seconds of taunt fixate wears off, how are you going to hold aggro on the boss for the remaining 5 seconds of your bubble? Answer: You're not.

Pretty much every poster here has experience with mobs reacting to bubbled tanks, which is why you don't see anyone arguing my point. Your advice here is going to get DPS/healers killed.

I'll repeat it one more time: When you bubble and taunt a mob, the mob will attack you for the duration of the taunt's fixate effect. In the case of Hand of Reckoning, this fixate effect is 3 seconds, unless there are currently taunt diminishing returns in effect. So, after those 3 seconds expire, the boss will see that you are immune and start attacking someone else for the remaining 5 seconds of your bubble. You cannot see this effect when you are soloing quest mobs because you are the only player on their threat list -- they have no other potential targets. In a raid, the boss will attack someone else.
User avatar
Belloc
 
Posts: 3195
Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2008 1:56 pm
Location: Silent Earth

Re: [10man] Wyrmbreaker

Postby Trav » Mon Feb 14, 2011 2:08 pm

abinning wrote:so...
I guess we will actually kill drakes now? I am curious what the new health and damage bonus numbers are now.
We shall find out tonight...


I believe the increased damage bonuses were doubled.

Hrobertgar wrote:Divine Shield is not BOP. With Divine Shield up, you can continue to attack the boss with ALL of your abilities for the 10 secs it is up, and rebuild your threat, thus saving your interupting enhancment shammy from being pawned.

If you are also holding a drake, your Hammer of the Righteous will also help rebuild threat on it, after you use your secondary taunt to re-acquire it; thus saving your healers from getting pawned.

I am NOT advocating hitting bubble and then sitting there doing nothing for 10-secs, I am advocating bubbling, then re-building threat while bubble remains up. Try it on some of the quest mini-bosses at the end of twilight highlands with 700k health.

As long as you continue to use your abilities through Divine Shield, you will still generate threat, just not quite as much threat as you would without the shield due to there being no blocks while immune.


You lost me, dude....

DS has no threat drop component. If you were at the top of the threat table, you remain there. HOWEVER, you are immune to damage for 8 seconds. The mobs are programmed to not attack an immune target if another is available. So they will go after #2 on the list during that time, unless fixated. Either of our taunt will fixate a mob to us for 3 seconds, after which normal threat mechanics apply. That leaves you with 2 seconds for a boss to kill whomever is under you on the threat list. This, to me, certainly seems a little luck dependent. So you're risking killing either a healer or a dps interrupter.

The lower threat output is due to doing 50% less damage while bubbled. As far as I know, block doesn't provide additional threat unless you have a spike on your shield. In which case, do yourself a favor get 40 block rating.

The reward is....8 seconds without the debuff in a 5-6 minute fight. (16, I guess, if the bubble is cast early enough in the encounter, though now you are risking two deaths). You're risking killing either 1/3 of your healing, or 20% of your dps (assuming all players are equal, which I doubt, so the likelihood is higher that your best healer is at risk) for relieving what is, at best, 3% of the fight time. No thanks.

EDIT: what Belloc said : p
User avatar
Trav
 
Posts: 205
Joined: Thu Oct 16, 2008 8:20 am
Location: New Jersey

Re: [10man] Wyrmbreaker

Postby Arianne » Mon Feb 14, 2011 2:10 pm

Belloc is completely correct in case you wanted a second opinion. If things aren't going to your DPSers then your other tank is probably higher on threat than they are and may or may not be getting splattered as a side effect of you doing this (depending on if s/he has CDs up when you do it or good healers).
Arianne
 
Posts: 502
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2007 1:22 pm

Re: [10man] Wyrmbreaker

Postby Hrobertgar » Tue Feb 15, 2011 11:40 am

I do understand the difference between attacking a mob solo and in a group, thats why I speicifically mentioend the mini-boss quest mobs, as they have enough health to stand upto a small grp for more than a couple of seconds. In the wilderness, if you bubble without taunting, the mobs immediately target the next player on the aggro table if available.

What I am saying, is that I ACTUALLY DID THIS, and after bublling taunted the boss before he could pawn my shammy interupter, and taunted the drake before he could find a healer, and held both until DS wore off.

I am saying if you don't believe me, then form a small group and try it on a high health mini-boss in Twilight Highlands, 770k should be enough, and they are fairly accessible. Or you could also try it out on Tank the shark in Tol Barad during dailys, as most people use a group for him anyways.
Never Pug a random Troll Heroic, always wait for the guild group.

Hrobearina - 85 Healer - space goat
Hrobertgar - 85 Tank - human
Hrobernia - 85 Arcane - human
Hrobanka - 85 BM - elf
Hrobertgar
 
Posts: 704
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 2:42 pm

Re: [10man] Wyrmbreaker

Postby agetro » Tue Feb 22, 2011 3:17 pm

I used Divine Shield on the last boss in Shadowfang Keep to take off that dot he does. I had forgotten to move away from him a couple times trying to figure out his new Pistol Barrage. As soon as I bubbled he ran after my healer. What does that tell you?
agetro
 
Posts: 43
Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2009 6:58 am

Previous

Return to Cataclysm Raids (T11+)

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron

Remove Advertisements

Who is online

In total there is 1 user online :: 0 registered, 0 hidden and 1 guest (based on users active over the past 5 minutes)
Most users ever online was 380 on Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:28 pm

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest