[10] Nefarian: Suggestion

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Re: [10] Nefarian: Suggestion

Postby mosa » Fri Feb 04, 2011 7:32 am

Reading on the mmo forums I got a (IMO) amazing tip... have nef pointed at your group of adds so that they all spawn at the same time and then they would all die/rez at the same time later on.... yeesh... such a simple thing and I bet that one thing will make the fight so much easier.

I also think were going to aim to push 3 crackles in P1, and then a crackle in P2 with a divine guardian and everyone poping their HS after the crackle. With those changes it should get much easier... arrrggggg the hard part now is going to be waiting till next week to kill that mofo.
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Re: [10] Nefarian: Suggestion

Postby Belloc » Fri Feb 04, 2011 9:41 am

mosa wrote:Reading on the mmo forums I got a (IMO) amazing tip... have nef pointed at your group of adds so that they all spawn at the same time and then they would all die/rez at the same time later on.... yeesh... such a simple thing and I bet that one thing will make the fight so much easier.

I also think were going to aim to push 3 crackles in P1, and then a crackle in P2 with a divine guardian and everyone poping their HS after the crackle. With those changes it should get much easier... arrrggggg the hard part now is going to be waiting till next week to kill that mofo.

Your third electrocute in phase 1 will cause Onyxia to wipe the raid, if I am not mistaken. You will have to time it so that it goes off immediately after she dies, which also means that you'll have to heal the raid while running to your pillars.

Also, having Nef breathe on the adds is great in theory, but it can be trickier in practice. If you can make it work for you, go for it, but I wouldn't recommend putting too much effort into it. We never found that it made the last phase any easier and we have since abandoned the practice, as far as I'm aware.
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Re: [10] Nefarian: Suggestion

Postby Kerriodos » Fri Feb 04, 2011 10:07 am

Belloc wrote:
mosa wrote:Reading on the mmo forums I got a (IMO) amazing tip... have nef pointed at your group of adds so that they all spawn at the same time and then they would all die/rez at the same time later on.... yeesh... such a simple thing and I bet that one thing will make the fight so much easier.

I also think were going to aim to push 3 crackles in P1, and then a crackle in P2 with a divine guardian and everyone poping their HS after the crackle. With those changes it should get much easier... arrrggggg the hard part now is going to be waiting till next week to kill that mofo.

Your third electrocute in phase 1 will cause Onyxia to wipe the raid, if I am not mistaken. You will have to time it so that it goes off immediately after she dies, which also means that you'll have to heal the raid while running to your pillars.


Yes, a third crackle will cause her electricity bar to fill up and you'll all fall over. Best bet is to have two crackles in the air phase--one once only a single add is left up (use raidwall, etc), and once as you transition. Of course, a melee heavy composition will find that near to impossible.

As for having Nef breathe on the adds, it sounds great, but it's honestly more work in phase one than it's worth in my opinion. The holy paladin and Righteous Fury should be enough. Sure, you wont get a breather for a few seconds, but it would have only lasted you about 10 seconsd--maybe 15--and there's a good chance they'd be split up after the fact.
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Re: [10] Nefarian: Suggestion

Postby mosa » Fri Feb 04, 2011 10:28 am

The general flow seemed to be to push the last crackle as you killed Ony, It seemed like last night we had the time to wait while nef took to the air for phase 2, which I could have bandage up. I'm more thinking that we would time the last crackle with Ony dying as it's emoting.

I'll be putting some time into having all the adds spawn via pointing nef at them. I found it difficult to deal with seperate adds spawning 10-15 seconds later, but that might be in part to the job our warrior add tank was doing. I have no doubt that he will get better with more practice.

I'll let you know how it goes... blarg...gotta wait till next week though, man I want to kill him now.
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Re: [10] Nefarian: Suggestion

Postby Belloc » Fri Feb 04, 2011 11:40 am

You'll probably have better success with learning how to indefinitely kite the adds. If you can't manage that, the last phase is always going to be "RNG."

Either way, best of luck.
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Re: [10] Nefarian: Suggestion

Postby mosa » Fri Feb 04, 2011 11:44 am

Belloc wrote:You'll probably have better success with learning how to indefinitely kite the adds. If you can't manage that, the last phase is always going to be "RNG."

Either way, best of luck.


I"m up for improving on both fronts... but it was very hard to deal with adds that would be out of range of my taunts/dps...

My skills need to and will get better on P3 with practice, but I see no harm in trying to push other aspects of the fight if our group is capable of doing so.
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Re: [10] Nefarian: Suggestion

Postby Arianne » Tue Feb 08, 2011 2:50 pm

The fire seems to expand more rapidly when there's something/someone/adds standing next to it. I just stay somewhat near it until the fire expands out to activate all of them and then kite away after that (you have a long time before the 2nd shadowblaze). As long as you move away as the fire expands so that your currently activated adds don't get targeted, then it should be fine. We also have the tank who was responsible for positioning them in phase 1 also help out by grabbing the stray ones in phase 3 when they collapse at bad times.
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Re: [10] Nefarian: Suggestion

Postby Destruktive » Fri Feb 11, 2011 6:20 am

Loras wrote:Sorry for hijacking the thread, but how do you actually handle P1 on 10 man if you don't have a plate melee dpser? We are having a warrior with 1h + shield tank/kite adds and them dying bunched together, can imagine that being done by a dps DK in blood presence, or by a ret pally with RF on and 1h + shield, or maybe feral druid in bear form, but what happens if you have, let's say, enh shaman + rogue?


We use our holy pally with RF on to pick up the adds. We're able to cc 3 of them and he just tanks the other 3 while helping with heals on the Nef tank, works really well.
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Re: [10] Nefarian: Suggestion

Postby PsiVen » Sat Feb 12, 2011 7:25 am

I don't think it's a good idea to push the 3rd crackle on the P2 transition; that transition already has the highest potential for mistakes/death. If you want to have him at 51% going into P3, you should push two crackles during P2 and prepare to deal with them then. Honestly, your best bet is do neither of these things and just deal with one P2 shock, starting P3 at 61%. Once you get the 'kiting' down around the circle, you will find that it's possible to reset them indefinitely even with 5-second shadowblazes. Your healer should be leading a ways along the path to avoid falling behind or having to dodge fire. The only situation where you want to stop focusing on that blaze timer is if the Nef tank dies at 10% and it's time to taunt and blow every cooldown in the universe.

As for having Nef breathe on the adds, it's very simple to do and very helpful. When the Nef tank positions the boss at the start of P3, he faces him towards the biggest cluster of adds, and they get breathed on. Certainly it's not worthwhile to meatspin the boss trying to have him breathe on each one, but hopefully 3 of them are close enough to get breathed on immediately and the other two will come out quickly. This is important for two reasons: One, because every add that gets breathed on and pulled out is an add that didn't drop fire in the middle of the room, so when you're gathering them up you want to pull them away from the middle as fast as possible. Two, you want them resetting as close together as possible, even if it means you have to clip fire in the first 30 seconds to even them out. It might seem like the longer they lie there not doing damage, the better, but in reality the longer they sit there the deeper into P3 the entire raid will have to deal with fire all over the place.
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Re: [10] Nefarian: Suggestion

Postby Vlad » Sun Mar 06, 2011 12:35 am

Decided to post this question here rather than make a new thread. my guilds going to try nef for the first time tonight, after watching many videos I'm quite worried about our group make up.

we have 2 tanks (Pally(me) and a DK) 5 dps (hunter, lock, boomkin, mage, rogue) and 3 heals(druid, sham and the third changes between priest and pally. both are unavailable but on different days so we switch them)

Who can we have kite in p1? because most videos/strats I've seen say have a plate dps or feral druid kite, but we can't do that. the next best thing would be hunter with frost trap and mage using the frost thing on them every CD, is that feasible or is there a better way?

EDIT: One thing I've recalled is our boomkin does have a feral OS not sure if he tanks or dps's, it'd be a substantially large dps loss (he's not very geared in boomie or feral due to being in christchurch and only getting his power back this week, he's missed a lot of raids) it'd give us 1 more interupt as our DK tank isn't very reliable on that front, and it'd give us a kiter, but would the mass dps loss be worth it?
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Re: [10] Nefarian: Suggestion

Postby Kerriodos » Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:14 am

Vlad wrote:Decided to post this question here rather than make a new thread. my guilds going to try nef for the first time tonight, after watching many videos I'm quite worried about our group make up.

we have 2 tanks (Pally(me) and a DK) 5 dps (hunter, lock, boomkin, mage, rogue) and 3 heals(druid, sham and the third changes between priest and pally. both are unavailable but on different days so we switch them)

Who can we have kite in p1? because most videos/strats I've seen say have a plate dps or feral druid kite, but we can't do that. the next best thing would be hunter with frost trap and mage using the frost thing on them every CD, is that feasible or is there a better way?

EDIT: One thing I've recalled is our boomkin does have a feral OS not sure if he tanks or dps's, it'd be a substantially large dps loss (he's not very geared in boomie or feral due to being in christchurch and only getting his power back this week, he's missed a lot of raids) it'd give us 1 more interupt as our DK tank isn't very reliable on that front, and it'd give us a kiter, but would the mass dps loss be worth it?


Our first ten man kill we simply CC'd the adds in phase one. A hunter can handle two, though one will run around a bit. You can sheep/hex/fear the other ones. This will be easier on nights with your paladin healer because they can heal the add kiter in phase 3 and the spread-out adds will simply come to him if he puts up righteous fury--then you taunt off him. Alternatively, you could have the mage go frost and keep them grouped together with frost novas (make sure people know to stand far away from them) and ring of frost. This avoids the problem of having them spawning fire randomly all over in phase 3.
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Re: [10] Nefarian: Suggestion

Postby sakkdaddy » Wed Mar 09, 2011 9:01 am

I would not do any crackles in Phases 1 or 2, and just do them all in Phase 3. There is really no gain to doing them before Phase 3 if your off-tank can handle the adds well. Avoiding crackles in Phase 1 lets you use your Holy Paladin as a kiter and push through the phase faster, though since you have to switch him out often maybe your mage is a better option. You can also have your DK kite as frost with chilblains very easily, if your Druid can tank.

Have your hunter and rogue send all of the adds that they can to the kiter, and vanish/feign before the temporary threat re-directions fall off. I would cover a big section of the room with a trap + earthbind totem as a kiting area, and keep them down 100% of the time. I would do this near a wall, between two pillars, so that in Phase 3 when fire awakens them, the fire will be far from the center of the room.

Whoever the kiter is just needs to be able to out-threat the healers in the raid, and ideally has an "oh shit" button or two to use while getting the adds grouped up at the start. Once the adds are together, just start circling them about 10y away (as close as possible really, but not close enough to take melee swings) so that they stack up nicely. Just keep them snared, and keep circling until Phase 2 begins.

I recommend your Holy Paladin just because 3 healers aren't needed in Phase 1 if you don't have to deal with Crackles, and he can use Holy Wrath as his main "oh-shit" button as well as a few other obvious abilities that make him great for kiting. Any class can work though, as long as they can hold aggro and the player knows how to run in a circle.
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Re: [10] Nefarian: Suggestion

Postby Loras » Wed Mar 09, 2011 6:47 pm

Eh... I dont really support the "no crackles in P1" method. P3 is so much more engaging and so many more things can go wrong that it's not at all justified to prolong it without a reason. And P1 is really easy anyway, not having crackles there is just a waste of potential and room for mistakes in p3.
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Re: [10] Nefarian: Suggestion

Postby PsiVen » Thu Mar 10, 2011 4:17 am

I have to disagree tbh, P2 is where most of our wipes happen and P1 certainly causes more than P3. As long as you can cleanly pick up all 5 adds, tank-kite properly (much easier currently thanks to the movement bug) and communicate with the Nef tank about rotating him for whip/breath, P3 should be the easiest part of the fight.

I can't think of a good reason why we bother taking Shocks in P1 either. The #1 death factor outside of P2 is Onyxia's tail/shock hitting during an Electrocute, and I can already see that we won't want to take any Shocks in P2 for Heroic mode.
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Re: [10] Nefarian: Suggestion

Postby Loras » Thu Mar 10, 2011 6:05 am

Then I must have been with a very good group hehe. P2 for us surely wasn't that much of a problem, the biggest problem for us came from our bugged druid healer who didn't see the lava (O.o). His lava texture was just gone, which would've been fine if it was behaving like invisible lava, but he was also reporting that it also behaved like being gone - he sees everyone rise up to the top level, but when he jumps, he jumps on the floor...

What movement bug btw? I'm curious.
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