[10] Ascendant Council

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[10] Ascendant Council

Postby sherck » Fri Feb 04, 2011 7:39 am

Saw a 25-man topic on this boss fight but not a 10-man...

Phase one. We have only had 1 night of pulls on this phase but it was not very pretty. Had a ton of issues of trying to get the proper buff out to the proper DPS group. Had the ranged group (attacking Water guy) standing in the middle (purple star inlaid in the floor) while the melee group (attacking Fire guy) was on the back of the Fire guy at the bottom of the stairs.

Someone mentioned just stacking everyone on the backside of the Fire Guy (melee and ranged both) so that the only guy who was "ranged" away from the Fire guy was the Water guy tank.

1. When Fire guy does his "leap," does he only hit people at range to him and thus will always hit the Water guy tank? If so, does this disrupt his ability to hold aggro/do interrupts?

2. If the Fire guy instead charges the melee group on his backside, how bad is the blow back that would, in theory, blow all 8 members (9 if the Fire guy tank was too close) of the raid all over the place.

3. If the Fire guy charges the melee group, his fire trail back to the tank would be very, very short to clear Waterlogged. How is that handled?

Thanks in advance for any advice you can give on this phase of the fight. We did end up pushing into phase 2 of the fight but at very bad ratios on the first two bosses and then only survived for about 30 seconds in phase two as everyone was unfamiliar with the "levitate" and "grounding" mechanic.

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Re: [10] Ascendant Council

Postby Belloc » Fri Feb 04, 2011 9:59 am

I don't recommend stacking the entire raid on Ignacious for a few reasons,

One: The Knockback will blow. Total waste of healing and DPS time.

Two: The fire trail will be incredibly small. If your other tank gets waterlogged (which can be avoided, but I don't expect that to always happen), he'll have to run all the way over there and it'll also screw with his interrupting.

Three: Stacking up does not solve the buff issue. Instead, it complicates it. For instance, if a shield is coming and all of your players have heart of ice... and then burning blood gets tossed out, heart of ice will be removed from everyone (you can only have one buff at a time).


We stick 1-2 melee on Ignacious, depending on our interrupt situation on Feludius (our tank usually handles interrupts, but you definitely need someone interrupting) and have the rest of the raid spread out in the middle.

We only focus on spreading the buffs when it is actually needed -- such as to break shields. So, when a shield is coming, we make sure that everyone is paying attention and spreading the heart to the ranged cluster (and melee, if possible). Other than that, buff spreading becomes a matter of convenience. If someone in ranged gets burning blood and we're DPSing Feludius, we'll try to spread it. Personally, if I see a buff that I want, I'll run and grab it myself. Other than that, we don't really focus too much on it. Shields are important, the 10% is important, the time in-between isn't important.


edit: Also, you can pretty much apply everything from the 25-man thread to the 10-man fight. The only real difference is that the final phase is easier on 10-man due to having more open space.
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Re: [10] Ascendant Council

Postby Epimer » Fri Feb 04, 2011 10:09 am

Similar to what I posted in the other thread: if you're having issues with spreading the debuffs and it causing problems with positioning, don't use them. Dispel them when they come up and get on with it. Phase 1 (and 2) is not a race. It is much, much more important to not push a phase transition with one of the pair at significantly more than 25%, or you're going to have an extremely hard time of it in phase 3.

If you have an imbalance in boss health, you simply call out for one group to slow down, or even help out on the other mob for a little while. We often have Ignacious a bit lower than Feludius because we pre-switch for speedy Aegis of Flame breaking/interrupting. You need to impress upon your DPSers the importance of not pew-pewing mindlessly away without regard to keeping boss health equal, because being oblivious to that can cause bigger problems in phase 2, when an accidental Hardened Skin break can cause Terrastra's health to take a big hit in a very short space of time.

Phase 1 and 2 are about control. Phase 3 is the race.

I don't know the answers to the other questions, sorry.
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Re: [10] Ascendant Council

Postby mosa » Fri Feb 04, 2011 10:30 am

We have our melee dps move back when burning blood is about to go out to ensure that Heart of Ice doesn't get overwrote. Basically the only way to die during that phase is Aeigs, so if that gets managed all will go well. We also have ranged swap to Aeigs to help get the shield down.
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Re: [10] Ascendant Council

Postby Poclain » Wed Feb 09, 2011 12:59 am

We tried the council yesterday for the first time. Only had 2 hours to waste on them. We were pretty successful pushing them in the second try in P3, but after that, no progress.

Our setup was:
2 Prot pallys
1 fury
1 feral
1 elemental shaman
1 Hunter
1 Mage
3 Healer (druid, priest, pala)

Main problems in P3:
- Too much raid dmg. The 3 healers were in no way able to control the incoming raid dmg. After blowing all their cds in the first minute, we were slowly (tbh pretty fast) dying.
- Not enough dps. How much melee do you bring to the council? what is the Minimum DPS they should be able to do? Ours vary between 10k to 15k.
- What is the 2nd tank doing in P3? ^^
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Re: [10] Ascendant Council

Postby mosa » Wed Feb 09, 2011 5:42 am

Poclain wrote:We tried the council yesterday for the first time. Only had 2 hours to waste on them. We were pretty successful pushing them in the second try in P3, but after that, no progress.

Our setup was:
2 Prot pallys
1 fury
1 feral
1 elemental shaman
1 Hunter
1 Mage
3 Healer (druid, priest, pala)

Main problems in P3:
- Too much raid dmg. The 3 healers were in no way able to control the incoming raid dmg. After blowing all their cds in the first minute, we were slowly (tbh pretty fast) dying.
- Not enough dps. How much melee do you bring to the council? what is the Minimum DPS they should be able to do? Ours vary between 10k to 15k.
- What is the 2nd tank doing in P3? ^^


Are you moving your ranged so they don't jump the chain lightings? Are you using Hero and boost potions? Are the melee standing on blue puddles?

We have done it with 3 melee, it's slightly harder, 10K+ should be doable. If there was ever a fight to used the stat boost potions this is it. 2x prot palies should be amazing for this, just save your raid sac for a bit deeper into the fight and same with hero. Don't use it instantly.

Pase 3 2nd tank should be dpsing... and probably popping 3x holy power on the lowest guy in the raid, LOH etc.

I also instruct my healers to stop healing me deeper into the fight to allow me to use all my tank cooldowns and LOH... He doesn't hit that hard really.
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Re: [10] Ascendant Council

Postby Poclain » Wed Feb 09, 2011 5:54 am

That's the thing. I don't quite get the abilities of this big guy. Does the raid have to spread wide, so the chain lightning hits only a few guys? How many meters are necessary?

We used hero as soon as threat was looking ok. I didn't think of boost potions. I'll try to remember that.

And what exactly are the blue puddles doing?
"The Monstrosity is preturnaturally cold, freezing the ground beneath it. The pools of ice will grow with continued exposure to the Monstrosity, dealing increasing Frost damage to enemies exposed to them. Essentially this ability is Defile from the Lich King but expands when the boss stands in it, rather than players. "
How big is the frost dmg?

(and sorry for my bad english ... no native speaker here)
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Re: [10] Ascendant Council

Postby Belloc » Wed Feb 09, 2011 9:40 am

The frost damage is big, but so is the boss' hitbox. Melee should not be getting it by it. If they are, that needs to be fixed.

Chain lightning has two things that you need to know: He'll cast more and more chain lightnings at a time and the chain lightning chains.

If people are too close, the lightning will chain. This is unacceptable, so make sure it's not happening. As the fight progresses, the boss will cast the spell on more and more people. If it's chaining, that means that people are getting hit 3-4 times per cast instead of once.
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Re: [10] Ascendant Council

Postby Fetzie » Fri Feb 11, 2011 4:41 am

In the middle of the room there is a circle. We set up three camps of a healer and a dps far enough from each other to restrict the lightning to two people. the monstrosity is pretty much dead by the time we have kited him around the full circle, I think we end up kiting him about 1 1/4 times around the circle.
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Re: [10] Ascendant Council

Postby Lathdari » Fri May 20, 2011 7:36 am

I'm a bit puzzled about tanking phase 3. I know that I should be moving the boss out of the blue puddles, so that he goes in a circle round the outside of the room. The problem is that every time I get him to his new location, he puts down a new puddle, so I'm always moving him, so I don't have any time to build threat.

Any hints?
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Re: [10] Ascendant Council

Postby Nikachelle » Fri May 20, 2011 7:41 am

Lathdari wrote:I'm a bit puzzled about tanking phase 3. I know that I should be moving the boss out of the blue puddles, so that he goes in a circle round the outside of the room. The problem is that every time I get him to his new location, he puts down a new puddle, so I'm always moving him, so I don't have any time to build threat.

Any hints?

I find myself having to taunt constantly for the first thirty seconds or so. If you have rogues and hunters, having them tricksing/MDing you constantly. Out of range of him, I'll use exorcism, shield throw, judge, and sometimes leave a consecration puddle at his feet while he's picked someone up. They're not much, but it helps. He should be firmly stuck on you towards the end of the phase though. It's just the initial pull that I usually run into issues.
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Re: [10] Ascendant Council

Postby Hrobertgar » Fri May 20, 2011 9:25 am

I have a little trouble too when I tank him.

While he moves he comes in and out of melee range, so if I spam click CS I can get a few off to build HoPo. I have also noticed that there are times when he is not moving anyways and you can stay in and build threat. He will generally levitate when he puts out his fire grid, so rush in and slam him hard for a few seconds.
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Re: [10] Ascendant Council

Postby Belloc » Fri May 20, 2011 10:39 am

Try to stand in the middle of the room before hitting phase 3 so that you can start generating threat as soon as you are freed. Consider turning on walk while kiting, as well, just to see if it helps.
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Re: [10] Ascendant Council

Postby Flex » Fri May 20, 2011 12:27 pm

I just say on mumble "I'll need tricks and md or whatever" Usually by the time I am against the wall it is good.
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Re: [10] Ascendant Council

Postby Chicken » Sat May 21, 2011 5:22 am

If your threat is good for the previous phase you can also save up 3 Holy Power for the start of the third phase. Being able to pull off an immediate full strength ShoR is very nice.
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