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CS/HotR not generating HoPo when missed, parried or dodged

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Re: CS/HotR not generating HoPo when missed, parried or dodged

Postby ironpants » Mon Feb 07, 2011 11:43 am

Dantriges wrote:Hoping they fix it soon? It´s a bug in a basic resource mechanic.


We dont now yet if this bug will go live. I believe something big as a change like that would be in the patch notes and it isnt.
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Re: CS/HotR not generating HoPo when missed, parried or dodged

Postby Saler » Mon Feb 07, 2011 5:03 pm

ironpants wrote:
Dantriges wrote:Hoping they fix it soon? It´s a bug in a basic resource mechanic.


We dont now yet if this bug will go live. I believe something big as a change like that would be in the patch notes and it isnt.


Options we have are:

Intended change forgotten to mention on patch notes: Goes Live
Intended stealth nerf: Goes Live
Unintended bug that hasn't been fixed: Goes Live
Unintended bug that has been fixed but fix isn't mentioned: Doesn't go live.

Right now i'm expecting to see it on live. And expecting any fix (unless it is intended and they've just messed up on telling us) to take 2-6 weeks.
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Re: CS/HotR not generating HoPo when missed, parried or dodged

Postby Sur-Pseudo » Mon Feb 07, 2011 5:52 pm

Someone else posted, so just piggy backing on their thread:
US PTR Forum Post: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2030264397

Feel free to chime in, per blue's stickies, paraphased, "We don't mind 'I'm having this issue too' posts as it helps us prioritize bugs, though constructive posts are more helpful"

I'll post this in CTA thread as well
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Re: CS/HotR not generating HoPo when missed, parried or dodged

Postby ironpants » Tue Feb 08, 2011 11:20 am

It is confirmed that this thing has gone Live. What now? I hope Blizzard will give us a statement soon. Iam not going to reconsider my whole equip strategy unless i have something official about that.

There was already a bug report started here http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2046735514. We should bump it to keep it on top.
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Re: CS/HotR not generating HoPo when missed, parried or dodged

Postby theckhd » Tue Feb 08, 2011 12:19 pm

Yes, it's gone live. No word on whether it's intended or not.
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Re: CS/HotR not generating HoPo when missed, parried or dodged

Postby Dantriges » Tue Feb 08, 2011 12:19 pm

Would be nice if they actually said something about the whole affair^and if it´s a bug, how long we have to wait until it´s fixed.
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Re: CS/HotR not generating HoPo when missed, parried or dodged

Postby Arincia » Tue Feb 08, 2011 12:47 pm

Well at least i figured out how to softcap my exp with minimal changes in gear and enchants. SoT 10, (Racial 3), Elixer 7.5, Bracer enchant (1.67), food 3. loss of 50 dodge and 315 mastery (4% block) but gained 22.17 exp with no racial bonus and 25.17 with racial bonus. Leaving only 115 ratings for no racial and 25 if you have a racial bonus. At that point just 1-2 piece of exp gear (or a little reforging) should soft cap exp.
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Re: CS/HotR not generating HoPo when missed, parried or dodged

Postby vexryn » Tue Feb 08, 2011 1:01 pm

theckhd wrote:
vinylger wrote:Being a long time reader, i observed a little thing too (i don't know if this already known and mentioned somewhere else). A parried/dodged SotR on a Sacred Duty procc will remove the procc but will keep the HoPo. As we have low to zero exp would it make sense to put those two talent points somewhere else? I'm not a mathematician but maybe those 2 points in Reckoning would build up some more Threat as a dodged SotR with Sacred Duty buff? If some math is already done about that i'll please you to give me a hint. :)

This has been that way since beta, and is already been included in the MATLAB model.

HotR will be no better on live - it can, in fact, miss/dodge/parry. It just doesn't generate a combat log entry when it does so.



Theck,
Follow-up question though - can I generate a holy power from HotR as long as it hits ANY target, the physical hit or the nova?

If so, it would seem that any time there is >1 mob in range that you can afford to hit, use HotR significantly increases the odds of generating consistent holy power, since you would need both mobs to dodge/miss/parry to generate no holy power on hit. Obviously becomes exponentially more effective as the number of mobs increases.

But that's assuming you can generate holy power from the splash portion of a second target even if your primary has a dodge/parry/miss. Is that possible?
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Re: CS/HotR not generating HoPo when missed, parried or dodged

Postby ironpants » Tue Feb 08, 2011 1:25 pm

Vexryn I just found that on the official US Bug Report Forum:

A possible related bug I found is that if Hammer of the Righteous misses it's primary target, it no longer does the aoe portion (at least on target dummies). This was something that I believe was specifically addresses and fixed previously. To clarify, if the small primary physical portion misses, it seems it is no longer doing the aoe portion at all.


I will test this when the EU Servers go live.
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Re: CS/HotR not generating HoPo when missed, parried or dodged

Postby matthewseidl » Tue Feb 08, 2011 1:28 pm

Arincia wrote:Well at least i figured out how to softcap my exp with minimal changes in gear and enchants. SoT 10, (Racial 3), Elixer 7.5, Bracer enchant (1.67), food 3. loss of 50 dodge and 315 mastery (4% block) but gained 22.17 exp with no racial bonus and 25.17 with racial bonus. Leaving only 115 ratings for no racial and 25 if you have a racial bonus. At that point just 1-2 piece of exp gear (or a little reforging) should soft cap exp.


Are you trying to cap expertise for threat or healing (via WoG)? I don't foresee this being a real threat hit, since we're already so far ahead of dps with vengeance stacked. For me, ~30% of the threat comes from ShoR when I full out dps, so this is a loss of ~7% dps. The CS is a 17% buff (assuming all mods are multiplicative, which they aren't). So I'm not positive this will actually make the patch a net dps/threat loss. Now, I'll miss the WoG healing, but with the seals change SoI should proc more often as well. We need theckd to run his numbers and see, but the world seems far from imploding.
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Re: CS/HotR not generating HoPo when missed, parried or dodged

Postby KysenMurrin » Tue Feb 08, 2011 1:38 pm

Unless we get some sign that Blizz intends to revert this pretty soon, I'd like to see the math on what levels of trading avoidance for hit/expertise are acceptable for the gain in WoG healing.
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Re: CS/HotR not generating HoPo when missed, parried or dodged

Postby Dantriges » Tue Feb 08, 2011 1:44 pm

Problem is rather with no vengeance, at the beginning or tank swap.

Well the whole thing has to be fixed anyways with HotR not hitting anyone if the physical part doesn´t connect. Seems to be a bug and Blizzard just keeps silent and hopes no one notices. :roll:
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Re: CS/HotR not generating HoPo when missed, parried or dodged

Postby Sur-Pseudo » Tue Feb 08, 2011 1:59 pm

Yeah, a lot of people say threat is a non issue...

But my usual group makeup includes 1 or 0 MD's in 25 man.... 1 MD Is generally not enough for me to hold agro on 17k+ DPS'ers when I'm running 0% hit, 10 expertise(glyph)... quite literally, I was very successful in my Hit/Exp dump, the only piece of gear i have with some is my crafted shield with Hit reforged partially off

so with a base ~25% chance to not generate holy power, I frequently have opening threat issues against amazing feral druids or enhance shammies. We generally have it down so they are not getting agro, but I miss an extra CS or two and they usually have to stop (I mean, I lost 3-6 seconds before I can SotR for threat)


So I understand some people do not have threat issues, but I think people are always assuming you'll have a hunter in 10/25 and you might have enough hit/exp to make up for it if not....... Personally, I still see problems running *NO HIT OR EXP* without MD/TotT


Edit: To clarify, just an issue the first 20-30 seconds on a new threat table... really only a *huge* issue with things like Throne/4winds, or fights with new bosses / new threat tables
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Re: CS/HotR not generating HoPo when missed, parried or dodged

Postby Dantriges » Tue Feb 08, 2011 2:02 pm

Don´t know, either I am dumb, dumping too much, too early into WoG or our ferals and other guys with no dumps are really amazing but sometimes, they close in, especially if vengeance drops in power because of that fast decay.
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Re: CS/HotR not generating HoPo when missed, parried or dodged

Postby Njall » Tue Feb 08, 2011 2:09 pm

KysenMurrin wrote:Unless we get some sign that Blizz intends to revert this pretty soon, I'd like to see the math on what levels of trading avoidance for hit/expertise are acceptable for the gain in WoG healing.



Which, if this is an intentional change, may be the point of the exercise. However, it is not documented so I am hoping this is a bug.
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