A Call to Arms - Cataclysm Mechanics testing

Warning: Theorycraft inside.

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Re: A Call to Arms - Cataclysm Mechanics testing

Postby tlitp » Tue Feb 08, 2011 1:49 am

On the basis of the parses offered by Shathus and Rabs :
  • HoW triggers all seals
  • J triggers all seals
  • JotJ is 4.0.3-identical, triggering only R/T
  • AS triggers only T
  • HotR triggers only T
  • Consecration's DoT effect certainly doesn't trigger Avalanche; as for the cast itself, we don't have a clear answer due to the sample size (there is a ~8.6% probability of not getting any procs in 11 casts)
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Re: A Call to Arms - Cataclysm Mechanics testing

Postby Arianne » Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:49 am

Hopefully these are what you wanted:

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/7y0ibci75wr5a1wg/ 0 JotJ AS
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/3tq10ppxyrwenblo/ 0 JotJ HotR
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/jlds8n036sfeg5z5/ 0 JotJ 2 hand (Battle Axe) J

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/pnabrsnr6gqgya61/ 2 JotJ AS
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/buy6omcub0ux9gha/ 2 JotJ HotR
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/2nm4pd64kl6qru61/ 2 JotJ Battle Axe J

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/qb4rlbc93fmt1dc7/ 0 JotJ Avalanche
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/xh8bal3aaxv1qd8l/ 2 JotJ Avalanche

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/bmuliw7yemrgaaqc/ 0 JotJ AS AA
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/5be4udhjdq7q1881/ 0 JotJ HotR AA
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/puddgn1m2jgd9a4e/ 0 JotJ Battle Axe J AA

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/pl2fy1gken5d1urf/ 2 JotJ AS AA
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/s66lq73sdknw1i9m/ 2 JotJ HotR J
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/f54rorjdo4ppxp0n/ 2 JotJ Battle Axe J AA

Some of the logs were linked incorrectly, so I fixed the links. -_- Particularly all of the ones with AA were messed up links. The 0 JotJ Battle Axe J AA and 2 JotJ Battle Axe J AA logs should both have all seals (SoR -> SoJ -> SoT -> SoI).
Last edited by Arianne on Tue Feb 08, 2011 12:04 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: A Call to Arms - Cataclysm Mechanics testing

Postby theckhd » Tue Feb 08, 2011 7:47 am

tlitp wrote:On the basis of the parses offered by Shathus and Rabs :
....

  • J triggers all seals
  • JotJ is 4.0.3-identical, triggering only R/T


Everything else seems to check out, but unless I'm mistaken, Shathus' parse doesn't support this, nor does Arianne's.

Unfortunately, Shathus managed to hit the dummy within 1 second of Judgement every damn time, but we can still extract the following snippets.

0/2 JotJ (Shathus):
[17:19:50.433] Shathus gains 703 mana from Shathus's Judgements of the Wise
[17:19:51.442] Shathus gains 218 mana from Shathus's Judgements of the Wise
[17:19:52.872] Shathus casts Judgement on Melee Target
[17:19:53.041] Shathus hits Melee Target 261 (O: 623)
[17:19:53.377] Shathus Judgement of Righteousness Melee Target 261 (O: 309)
[17:19:53.763] Shathus Seal of Righteousness Melee Target 1 (O: 58)

[17:19:53.764] Shathus gains 703 mana from Shathus's Judgements of the Wise
[17:19:53.764] Shathus's Judgements of the Wise is refreshed by Shathus
[17:19:54.352] Shathus gains 166 mana from Shathus's Judgements of the Wise
[17:19:57.548] Shathus casts Hammer of Wrath on Melee Target


Melee+Judgement, only one SoR proc. This is true for every Judgement+melee event in the log, and there are no isolated Judgements to act as a control.

2/2 JotJ (Shathus):
[17:23:48.501] Shathus casts Judgement on Melee Target
[17:23:48.754] Shathus hits Melee Target 262 (O: 680)

[17:23:48.871] Shathus gains 703 mana from Shathus's Judgements of the Wise
[17:23:49.394] Shathus Judgement of Righteousness Melee Target 262 (O: 23)
[17:23:49.394] Shathus Seal of Righteousness Melee Target 1 (O: 65)

[17:23:49.394] Shathus's Judgements of the Wise is refreshed by Shathus
[17:23:49.813] Melee Target's Judgements of the Just is refreshed by Shathus
[17:23:49.813] Shathus Seal of Righteousness Melee Target 1 (O: 66)

[17:23:49.897] Shathus gains 703 mana from Shathus's Judgements of the Wise
[17:23:50.823] Shathus casts Hammer of Wrath on Melee Target


Again, melee+JoR+JotJ, but not we have two procs. The second proc always immediately follows JotJ, often with exactly the same timestamp.

0/2 JotJ (Arianne)
[05:06:51.758] Arianne casts Judgement on Melee Target
[05:06:51.811] Arianne gains 3514 mana from Arianne's Seal of Insight
[05:06:52.058] Arianne Judgement Melee Target 1437
[05:06:52.309] Arianne gains Judgements of the Wise from Arianne

[05:10:33.684] Arianne casts Judgement on Melee Target
[05:10:33.868] Arianne gains 703 mana from Arianne's Judgements of the Wise
[05:10:34.335] Arianne Judgement of Truth Melee Target 261 (O: 1271)
[05:10:34.335] Melee Target afflicted by Censure (3) from Arianne
[05:10:34.335] Arianne Seal of Truth Melee Target 1 (O: 102)
[05:10:34.335] Arianne Censure Melee Target 1 (O: 407)
[05:10:34.585] Arianne's Judgements of the Wise is refreshed by Arianne
[05:10:34.869] Arianne gains 420 mana from Arianne's Judgements of the Wise


One SoI / SoT proc from every Judgement, SoJ/SoR not tested.

2/2 JotJ (Arianne):
[05:40:47.050] Arianne casts Judgement on Melee Target
[05:40:47.934] Arianne Judgement of Righteousness Melee Target 1808
[05:40:47.934] Arianne's Judgements of the Wise is refreshed by Arianne
[05:40:48.185] Melee Target's Judgements of the Just is refreshed by Arianne
[05:40:48.185] Arianne Seal of Righteousness Melee Target 409

[05:41:16.110] Arianne casts Seal of Justice
[05:41:21.630] Arianne casts Judgement on Melee Target
[05:41:21.981] Arianne Judgement Melee Target 1262 (O: 174)
[05:41:22.515] Arianne's Judgements of the Wise is refreshed by Arianne
[05:41:22.766] Melee Target's Judgements of the Just is refreshed by Arianne

[05:42:28.856] Arianne casts Judgement on Melee Target
[05:42:29.507] Melee Target afflicted by Censure (3) from Arianne
[05:42:29.757] Arianne Judgement of Truth Melee Target 1 (O: 1531)
[05:42:29.757] Arianne Seal of Truth Melee Target 1 (O: 101)
[05:42:29.757] Arianne's Judgements of the Wise is refreshed by Arianne
[05:42:30.024] Arianne Censure Melee Target 262 (O: 146)
[05:42:30.024] Melee Target's Judgements of the Just is refreshed by Arianne
[05:42:30.024] Melee Target afflicted by Censure (4) from Arianne
[05:42:30.274] Arianne Seal of Truth Melee Target 1 (O: 154)

[05:46:17.006] Arianne casts Seal of Insight
[05:46:22.977] Arianne casts Judgement on Melee Target
[05:46:22.977] Arianne gains 3513 mana from Arianne's Seal of Insight
[05:46:23.328] Arianne Judgement Melee Target 1 (O: 1435)
[05:46:23.578] Melee Target's Judgements of the Just is refreshed by Arianne
[05:46:25.363] Arianne's Seal of Insight fades from Arianne


Again, only one SoR proc, no SoJ procs, two SoT procs, and one SoI proc.

The SoI data is especially interesting. Arianne swapped to Seal of Insight 13 times, casting one Judgement each time, and then swapping back to SoT. Every single one of those Judgement events looks exactly like the one above. Seal of Insight procced 100% of the time from Judgement, always followed the "casts Judgement on Melee Target" entry, and all but four of them had the same time stamp as the "casts Judgement" entry. There were 0 procs from JotJ.

Despite being a PPM, we got 13 procs in 13 Judgements, and 0 procs in 13 JotJ. While there's a ~50% chance of getting 13/13 with a 3.8-speed weapon, there's less than a snowball's chance in hell for 0/13.

Rabs' parse has another 8 such events, with one at the very end that got clipped:
[01:46:37.705] Dwarfbs casts Judgement on Melee Target
[01:46:38.072] Dwarfbs gains 3513 mana from Dwarfbs's Seal of Insight
[01:46:38.593] Dwarfbs Judgement Melee Target 523 (O: 2923)
[01:46:38.593] Melee Target's Judgements of the Just is refreshed by Dwarfbs
[01:46:53.235] Dwarfbs casts Judgement on Melee Target
[01:46:53.854] Dwarfbs gains 3513 mana from Dwarfbs's Seal of Insight
[01:46:54.436] Dwarfbs Judgement Melee Target 784 (O: 2663)
[01:46:54.436] Melee Target's Judgements of the Just is refreshed by Dwarfbs


I can't tell whether the last event is evidence that SoI isn't a 100% proc off of SoI, or whether it simply got clipped by the log. With a 3.8-speed weapon, it would take 150+ SoI procs from Judgement to feel reasonably certain that it's 100% proc rate; testing this would probably be easier with a 2.6 speed, in which case 20-25 Judgements should suffice.

From this, it looks like:

J procs SoT/Cens++, SoI (possibly 100% chance, needs to be confirmed); does not proc SoR/SoJ
JotJ procs SoT/Cens++, SoR; does not proc SoJ/SoI (4.0.3a identical)
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Re: A Call to Arms - Cataclysm Mechanics testing

Postby Shathus » Tue Feb 08, 2011 8:00 am

theckhd wrote:Unfortunately, Shathus managed to hit the dummy within 1 second of Judgement every damn time, but we can still extract the following snippets.


:oops:

I forgot until the end you can cast judgement facing away from the target and I just kept trying to stop AA after cast. Sorry about that.
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Re: A Call to Arms - Cataclysm Mechanics testing

Postby theckhd » Tue Feb 08, 2011 9:21 am

I think I've updated everything on the front page. I've re-written the seal tests for live, in case we want to re-run them. If HotR/CS holy power generation is still bugged when the servers come back up, it's a good chance we don't need to bother. However, if we get a different build (with properly-functioning HotR/CS), then we may have to repeat them.
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Re: A Call to Arms - Cataclysm Mechanics testing

Postby Durability » Tue Feb 08, 2011 10:49 am

Confirmed that CS misses not generating HP made it live, just tested it on a dummy.
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Re: A Call to Arms - Cataclysm Mechanics testing

Postby Arianne » Tue Feb 08, 2011 11:53 am

We need to create and maintain a bug report post both on the tanking forum and on the bug report forum until they fix that. :(

My first logs with AA I think had a couple of cases where SoI didn't proc, but it was late and I was half asleep for most of that testing. Sorry I didn't get SoR/SoJ without auto attack (it took me finishing the parses and starting to read the next section on avalanche testing before I realized what AA stood for :x).
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Re: A Call to Arms - Cataclysm Mechanics testing

Postby Sabindeus » Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:04 pm

Durability wrote:Confirmed that CS misses not generating HP made it live, just tested it on a dummy.


This makes me madder than the madness of 1000 crazy people. >:(
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Re: A Call to Arms - Cataclysm Mechanics testing

Postby Shathus » Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:21 pm

Sabindeus wrote:
Durability wrote:Confirmed that CS misses not generating HP made it live, just tested it on a dummy.


This makes me madder than the madness of 1000 crazy people. >:(


I'm sure this will get posted in 500 places on the site, but a Blue confirmed it's working as intended

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic ... ?page=2#29
Thanks for the reports, however this is intended.

Holy Power should not be generated on Dodge, Parry, Block, Miss.
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Re: A Call to Arms - Cataclysm Mechanics testing

Postby Klaudandus » Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:32 pm

Shathus wrote:I'm sure this will get posted in 500 places on the site, but a Blue confirmed it's working as intended

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic ... ?page=2#29
Thanks for the reports, however this is intended.

Holy Power should not be generated on Dodge, Parry, Block, Miss.

I wonder if that blue is talking out of his ass. I think i have the recollection it had been mentioned that prot paladins were supposed to generate HP on dodge/parry/miss
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Re: A Call to Arms - Cataclysm Mechanics testing

Postby Rabs » Wed Feb 09, 2011 2:41 pm

Censure no longer seems to be dodged or parried (not sure if this is news to you lot though - didn't have time to read through the threads yet)

My damage meters for censure tonight so far:
2480 hits
238 misses (8.2%)
169 crits
6 absorbs
5 immune

I can post logs later if this is in fact an undocumented change.
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Re: A Call to Arms - Cataclysm Mechanics testing

Postby theckhd » Wed Feb 09, 2011 3:15 pm

Censure damage was never able to be dodged or parried, only the application of the debuff was. It's possible that your data indicates that the application can no longer be dodged or parried as well, which isn't an unreasonable result given that they heavily reworked the way seals work.
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Re: A Call to Arms - Cataclysm Mechanics testing

Postby Rabs » Wed Feb 09, 2011 3:25 pm

That's probably it then as I'm confident Skada used to show Censure dodges/parries (which is what made me believe it was the actual damage being dodged/parried) whereas today it doesn't.
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Re: A Call to Arms - Cataclysm Mechanics testing

Postby tlitp » Sat Feb 12, 2011 2:43 pm

Requesting two parses :
I. Blade Ward @85
  • level restriction : level 85 only
  • build : anything
  • gear : anything, having equipped a BGA enchanted with Blade Ward
  • seal : none
  • target : any low-lvl dummy (debuffs are irrelevant)
  • attack sequence : only autoattcks
  • goal : at least one hour of autoattacks
Avoid haste procs, report your total (physical) haste, upload the CL.

II. Consecration and Inquisition as triggers for Avalanche/Hurricane/Mending
  • build : anything with 2/2 HalGro, skipping the relevant glyph
  • gear : anything (the weapon choice is irrelevant), having the equipped weapon enchanted with Avalanche
  • seal : Insight
  • target : any low-lvl dummy (debuffs and placement are irrelevant)
  • attack sequence : autoattacks, CS, 1HoPow Inq, Cons, Judgement
  • goal : the first objective is to cast 50 1HoPow Inq (CS as builder, Cons and J in the gaps); after that, drop CS and Inq altogether and continue to use Cons until you reach 50 total Cons casts (again, using J as filler)


@Theck :
a. tests #1 and #2 should be reduced to Exor only (we'll hopefully clear out J+Insight from II)
b. test #3 is superseded by II
c. as long as it won't become an unmanageable hassle, I agree to maintain the current format (put the current mechanics on top, bury in the footnotes all the deprecated ones that we've researched)
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Re: A Call to Arms - Cataclysm Mechanics testing

Postby theckhd » Sat Feb 12, 2011 3:44 pm

tlitp wrote:c. as long as it won't become an unmanageable hassle, I agree to maintain the current format (put the current mechanics on top, bury in the footnotes all the deprecated ones that we've researched)


First post updated with requests. Just to be clear, do you mean I should re-order the lists to put compiled results at the top and list the individual results in reverse order?
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