How much Hit/Expertise Do we need?

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How much Hit/Expertise Do we need?

Postby Drazm » Fri Feb 04, 2011 2:10 pm

I just recently started tanking and I looked at ElitistJerks first. They list Hit as the number one stat to cap first, followed by getting expertise to 26(glyphed). Looking at the pieces listed in the tanking gear guide, i see very few pieces that have hit on them, and to a lesser extent expertise. Reading various different posts here on Maintankadin I get the impression that hit shouldn't be a priority, and any threat stat is generally not needed.

So my question is. How much Hit should we aim for, and should we ever enchant/gem/reforge into Hit? same for expertise. Or should we just use what we happen to get on equipment and leave it at that?

I would greatly appreciate links to posts that explain this as well, as i mentioned above, i don't see much that specifically states what to do about hit.

my armory link: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/s ... a/advanced

Thanks for any advice.
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Re: How much Hit/Expertise Do we need?

Postby Epimer » Fri Feb 04, 2011 3:40 pm

None. You don't need any. There's a rant about the information contained in the Elitist Jerks thread a few pages back in the Frustrations thread in the General sub-forum (by, erm, me).

Don't gem for hit or expertise. Don't enchant for either. Certainly don't reforge survival stats into them. You can hold threat by following a tight rotation and by your DPS not utterly failing.
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Re: How much Hit/Expertise Do we need?

Postby arktik » Fri Feb 04, 2011 7:09 pm

I agree with previous poster 100%, shouldnt worry about it. HOWEVER, a more semi technical answer:

your goals for threat are expertise to 26(with glyph)>hit to 8%>expertise again to something i forget.

But back to previous poster, threat is a joke, in fact, i change to seal of insight once i hit 1 minute marker in any raid fight and i still blow dps out of the water. It matters how you pull and how you utilize your rotation.
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Re: How much Hit/Expertise Do we need?

Postby fuzzygeek » Fri Feb 04, 2011 9:37 pm

I don't know that there are many specific posts with regards to "what to do about hit" because hit and expertise are threat stats, and threat is (currently) a non-issue so it's generally being dismissed out of hand (until such time as generating threat matters again, anyway, which no one has found in current content). So we focus on staying alive (there's a lively stam/BR discussion in another thread).

In my Glory build I have 0 expertise and 0.64% hit, IIRC. I have 0 threat problems.

How much Hit/Xpt do you need? None. Is it nice? Sure -- I have an alternat gearset that's hit/xpt capped that I use for trivial tanking. But when we're doing progression content, I focus on staying alive.
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Re: How much Hit/Expertise Do we need?

Postby Dantriges » Sat Feb 05, 2011 7:31 am

If we don´t generate HoPo as in the latest PTR buid, perhaps things will be a bit different?

Mentioned here.

http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.com/ ... =viewtopic
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Re: How much Hit/Expertise Do we need?

Postby Fuin » Sun Feb 06, 2011 3:54 am

If this change will make it to live, that will suck as hell. Paladins will be the only tank in need of hit/exp, we will have to reforge for it, aka loose some avoidance, making us take more damage in non direct way, and that suck. I hope this change is a bug and wont make it to live.
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Re: How much Hit/Expertise Do we need?

Postby Dantriges » Sun Feb 06, 2011 11:30 am

Do Blood Shield and Savage Defense actually work if you miss?

IIRC Savage Defense is critbased or not? No hit, no crit.

If they wan to do this change, it should at least apply to all tanks. Not paladins only or paladins and bears.

Only thing that would bother me is, if we are the only ones affected and no time or prewarning to get the stuff with exp/hit on it.
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Re: How much Hit/Expertise Do we need?

Postby Sur-Pseudo » Mon Feb 07, 2011 10:14 pm

~481 Expertise (with glyph)
~961 Hit

That will get you Hit capped, Exp. soft capped.


For single target boss raiding, Exp > Hit (Exp is only 'worse' for heroics, as HotR benefits less from Expertise)
For AOE tanking, I'm not quiet sure -- I think Hit might pull ahead, but I'd still go with Exp > Hit since AOE tanking is very minimal in Cata so far
Last edited by Sur-Pseudo on Mon Feb 07, 2011 10:39 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: How much Hit/Expertise Do we need?

Postby Olen » Mon Feb 07, 2011 10:28 pm

961 Hit Rating for 8% cap
781 Expertise Rating w/o glyph for soft cap
481 Expertise Rating w/ glyph for soft cap

Human racial is worth 90 Exp Rating


Thats whats in my notes, taken from other forum posts.
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Re: How much Hit/Expertise Do we need?

Postby matthewseidl » Tue Feb 08, 2011 11:50 am

While I agree its a big change, I don't see it as a reason to reforge for hit/expertise. If we reduce our HoPo generation by 25%, that's roughly 25% fewer ShoR. ShoR is about 30% of my threat, so a net loss of 7% threat. I don't know about you, but after the first 30s, I'm always more than 7% ahead of my dps. As well, we see a ~17% bump to CS (assuming all mods are multiplicative, which I don't think they are). CS is also about 30% of my threat (more than ShoR always), so the patch is a net threat gain. Now, breaking the 939 rotation will suck, and I'm sure there are other effects (~3% change of holy shield falling off, etc), but its not the end of the world.
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Re: How much Hit/Expertise Do we need?

Postby Sur-Pseudo » Tue Feb 08, 2011 2:09 pm

Yeah but generalization (7% reduction) is not what matters ultimately...

its the opening 30 seconds that always concerns me. I have 0% hit, and 10 Expertise (Glyph).. and no MD/TotT <-- Bolded because I want to point out, I frequently do not have MD/TotT

If I miss 2 attacks, I'm relying on my DP/Inq/Exo/J/AS/.... opener for threat a LOT longer if I get 1 Miss, or worse yet, 2 misses

2 missed CS's AND SotR is not cast until t=12 or t=15? Usually by T=9 I have someone (enhance shammy, feral druid, a lucky ret paladin) right on my rear end, and that SotR bumps me a good 200k+ ahead buying time for vengeance to finish stacking and for peoples opening pot's to wear off and RNG to stabalize
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Re: How much Hit/Expertise Do we need?

Postby Chanserv » Wed Feb 09, 2011 1:41 am

After this patch going to lose reliable ~9sec WoG's and chance HS will drop off... not sure if cap is still worth it how ever. I don't have the log from tonight to see if HS fell off or not :(
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Re: How much Hit/Expertise Do we need?

Postby Linkie » Wed Feb 09, 2011 2:50 am

You need to miss 6 CS in a row for HS to fall off. While the chance is there, it is extremely small. However, using HP on 1-2 charged ShoR will definitely suck.

Luckily WoG scales linearly, so the only difference when using it on 1-2 charges is lost GCDs. But it seems we will have some to spare with this new system, and that is really what makes it suck so much.
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