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combat logs what can i do with them?

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combat logs what can i do with them?

Postby Jaitee » Wed Feb 02, 2011 8:54 pm

so ive recently started looking into parsing my groups raids i know how to do it and that, but im not sure what sort useful information i can get from this and how to get it does anyone know of a guide or anything like that i can use to learn what sort of things to look for in the logs and how to use them to get my group running better.
thanks in advance JT =D
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Re: combat logs what can i do with them?

Postby Jonlo » Thu Feb 03, 2011 1:52 am

Jaitee wrote:so ive recently started looking into parsing my groups raids i know how to do it and that, but im not sure what sort useful information i can get from this and how to get it does anyone know of a guide or anything like that i can use to learn what sort of things to look for in the logs and how to use them to get my group running better.
thanks in advance JT =D


Who's lagging in damage and comparisons with other players etc.
Who's lagging in healing
Who's dying to what and how often
CD usage, Consumable usage.

Basically anything that breaks down the fight.
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Re: combat logs what can i do with them?

Postby Epimer » Thu Feb 03, 2011 2:25 am

Assuming World of Logs:

- Buff uptime in the individual player breakdown is useful to see who's actually using their cooldowns appropriately/at all.
- The Expression Editor can give you an idea of what people are casting and in what order, and is handy for spotting people who aren't using every GCD (if they should be) or are generally doin' it wrong.
- The "Healing by actor" tab is useful to see if healers are sticking to their assignments, or which tanks are slacking on the self-healing front if that's appropriate.
- Creatures --> Bosses --> (whatever boss -->) Buffs gained is very useful for seeing who's slacking with keeping up relevant debuffs, e.g. Sunders or equivalent or those poor unfortunate tanking classes who have to manually apply attack speed slow/AP reduction debuffs.

And stuff like that.

Remember when you're looking at a timeline of events that these fights aren't Patchwerk, and you're going to see some deviations from ideal behaviour because of that. I've had to remind myself of that a few times when looking at ability usage and thinking "wtf is that person doing?!" when it's just an artifact of lots of movement or target switching or whatever.
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Re: combat logs what can i do with them?

Postby Steve » Thu Feb 03, 2011 3:13 am

My general uses for them include:

Figuring out why one player of one spec is so much lower on damage than another player of the same spec. (Rotation checks.)
Figuring out how well the raid is handling a particular mechanic.
Understand precisely how a specific boss ability works, which is occasionally not the way forums lead you to believe.

In the past month, here are some examples of what I've used WoL to figure out:

Why one assassination rogue was much lower in damage done than another.
How many times each person in my raid was hit by Corrupting Crash.
Whether interrupting Harden Skin is a DPS loss from not getting the Shatter, and if so how much.
How much and from what sources everyone in the raid was getting sound.
How sound gains actually work.
The exact sequence of failures that led to every Devastation on every wipe in a particularly bad night.
How many electrical instabilities my raid was getting per second in P3 Twilight Council compared to other guilds.
What boss abilities can be reflected by eye for an eye.
How much DPS eye for an eye is worth for each boss encounter.

To do all this you'll need to figure out how to use the expression editor.
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Re: combat logs what can i do with them?

Postby lythac » Thu Feb 03, 2011 3:57 am

Jonlo wrote:Who's dying to what and how often


In addition to this how much avoidable damage people are taking. Sorting by damage taken and looking at the non tanks and comparing how much damage they all took.
Friendly fire.
Interrupts.
Who are getting the MDs/Tricks - are players using them on the right players.
Damage done to what target. Are players attacking the right target or trying to win the damage meter.
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Re: combat logs what can i do with them?

Postby Snake-Aes » Thu Feb 03, 2011 8:34 am

It is also excellent to explain WHY certain things happen. Once we had a healer that was really low even though he kept doing his top game healing on Brutallus.

Upon reading the a log, we discovered his heals were nearly always landing a fraction of a second after another healer's, resulting in 80% of his heals being overheals. We asked him to wait a split-second longer than usual to start healing and suddenly we no longer had tank deaths on brutallus.
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Re: combat logs what can i do with them?

Postby Jaitee » Thu Feb 03, 2011 4:21 pm

thanks for the helpful replies everyone! just one more question what site would you recommend i use or is there a program i can download and run would prefer a program then i can browse logs on my laptop while on the train =D
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Re: combat logs what can i do with them?

Postby Sabindeus » Thu Feb 03, 2011 5:44 pm

Jaitee wrote:thanks for the helpful replies everyone! just one more question what site would you recommend i use or is there a program i can download and run would prefer a program then i can browse logs on my laptop while on the train =D


www.worldoflogs.com
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Re: combat logs what can i do with them?

Postby Kelaan » Fri Feb 04, 2011 3:32 pm

World of Logs lets me find out all sorts of (often useless) information. Sometimes it's extremely useful. The expression editor helps show when person A is doing the Wrong Rotation, and lets you compare with person B on the same fight.

Last night, we had three raids, each had a paladin tank in it. One was a newer tank that we've not used in raids before, and several healers commented on him feeling "squishy". Why? Looking at his armory, he'd reforged to threat (and capped exp/hit), so he had ~20% less block chance than me or our other veteran paladin tank. However, I was curious what else we did differently. Here's a (semi-sanitized) quote that I shared.

Kelaan wrote:I also looked into the World of Logs logs for each of the three groups, and compared both damage taken and healing done for Newtank, Kelaan (me), and VeteranTank. Here's what I found. It looks like he and I have radically different play styles, and I suspect that it plays into the perception of him being "squishy".

Raid 1: Kelaan's logs
I use Seal of Insight, and Word of Glory on myself almost every chance I get. I sometimes snipe heals on others with WoG when they look low (or on healers), but often I'm taking enough damage that doing it on myself seems safer.

Halfus (kill): 330 secs
DPS taken: 6679
Self-healing done: 580k (~256k from seal of insight, rest from Word of Glory) (1757 hps)
Other healing done: 180k (113k from holy radiance, plus a LoH on a rogue for ~70k)

Valiona (best): 435 secs
DPS taken: 8703
Self-healing: 1.42M (40%) (3218 hps)
Other healing: 326k (Mainly holy radiance + WoG snipes while Theralion was on the floor). I also used Divine Guardian when meteors were going to hit the ranged group.


Newtank's logs
Newtank used SoTruth and used WoG on himself. This cuts down on a LOT of self-healing. Mending enchant healed him for 19k, which is just about useless (IMO). He appears not to have used Holy Radiance on Valiona, and isn't specced for Divine Guardian (which helps reduce raid damage taken every few minutes).

Halfus (kill): 360 secs
DPS taken: 7200
Self-healing done: 350k (972 hps)
Other healing done: none

Valiona (best): 300 secs
DPS taken: 10k
Self-healing done: 557k (1856 hps)
Other healing done: none

Conclusion

I believe that a lot of Newtank's perceived "squishiness" can be resolved by reforging differently, as well as by concentrating more on healing himself than on generating threat.


The way I figured this out was by opening my log for last night, and his, and looking at the Kill and the Best Attempt for each of our raid's Halfus and Valiona attempts. I first compared Damage Taken -- on Valiona that's a much more comparable comparison, since our groups did not use the same tactic on Halfus. I noticed that I took a lot less damage than him, which I presume is due to gearing and reforging, and perhaps cycling cooldowns. I also noticed that I had nearly double the self-healing that he did.

Then, I looked at Healing Done. Clicking my name (and his) gives me a page that shows (for that fight) healing by spell, healing by actor. "healing by actor" view showed me that I healed myself for X, healed the raid for Y, and did ~40% of my own healing. The "healing by spell showed me that Seal of Insight healed me for almost as much as Word of Glory spam did (and thus seems to ME to be a pretty valuable HoT). It also showed me that I used Holy Radiance and Word of Glory a lot on the raid, whereas his only healing was to himself.

Combining the two, I could see why the healers would notice having to heal him more. He needed substantially more healing from healers due to not healing himself, and had more total damage that needed healing as well. He doesn't appear to have used Ardent Defender (I tend to use it as preemptive damage reduction than as a cheat-death). I can't tell if he used Guardian of Ancient Kings, but I doubt it. He doesn't appear to have used an on-use trinket for avoidance or damage reduction (but then, his trinkets apear to be DPS-ey trinkets when I look in the armory).

Looking at his damage by spell usage ratios, I also think he may not be doing 939 properly, as I am pretty sure I have a higher proportion of Crusader Strike, but would need to do more analysis to be sure. I expect that an analysis of holy power gains (per second) from CS would tell me a lot, and it already appears that our proportional uses of Avenger's Shield and Judgement are significantly different, which makes me suspect that he's using Grand Crusader procs when they happen, rather than sticking with 939.

Basically, World of Logs gives me concrete evidence that I can use when I go to talk to him this weekend about tactical choices we can use to make our healers' jobs easier, esp when they report going OOM, as well as a discussion of the merits of hit/exp cap versus mastery stacking and of various rotations. It helps me ask more specific questions other than "Soooo ... how's tanking?".
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