New tank, looking for all kinds of advice

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New tank, looking for all kinds of advice

Postby Cutwolf » Wed Feb 02, 2011 5:02 pm

Hi all,

A few days after Christmas, I decided to restart WoW again after a hiatus since WoW classic (where I had a rogue, but only made it to 56). With the help of some very nice leveling guides, I managed to hit 85 pretty quickly (by my standards at least; around 6.5 days /played).

I've managed to gear up pretty quickly and pretty well thanks to the fact that I have 3 family members on my server with multiple level 85s who have been playing since WoW classic.

However, tanking is brand new to me, so I wanted to ask a whole bunch of things that confuse/worry me or that I'm unsure of. Thanks in advance for helping.

1) Here is my Armory: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/a ... f/advanced

I'm working on my Dragonmaw reputation to replace my green helm. After that, what should I be targeting? Should I start trying to get into BH runs to get the t11 gloves and legs?

2) What is the best way to go about raiding for the first time? Doing a heroic is one thing -- I use the LFG tool and let them know at the beginning that I haven't done the dungeon before or I've only done it a couple times. There is no LFG tool for raiding, and not many PUG BH raids are going to take a new tank over someone who has run it before.

3) What DPS should I be pulling in AOE fights? Single target fights? I'm obviously not a DPS class, but does my DPS matter as long as I'm keeping threat on everything? Dungeon wide I'm around 6-7k. But I've heard someone say (perhaps exaggerating) that their prot pally has put up 14k in AOE pulls.

4) My AoE rotation is typically:

Pull with AS -> Judgment -> HotR -> HW -> HotR -> AS (if up). Repeat -> WoG at 3 HP (or SotR if heals are particularly good)

My single target is basically the same except CS instead of HotR

I notice I have a delay in my cycle (cue pregnancy jokes) at times where everything is on cooldown. Is that to be expected? It's not long, but it makes me feel like I'm doing something wrong.

Is my rotation typical?

5) Am I SUPPOSED to keep threat on everything, particularly in heroics? Is it OK to let the DK or Warrior DPS pull aggro on one of the mobs? I'm not sure if it's better for me to take on everything thus losing life quicker or take on less but more people need to be healed. I typically try and grab everything (some situational exceptions), but I don't know if that's me just trying to do too much.


Sorry for so many questions, but thanks so much for reading. I don't think I've done too poorly thus far and there have been only a few wipes that I absolutely know were my fault (ignoring WoW's blame-the-tank-for-everything-including-no-CC mentality)
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Re: New tank, looking for all kinds of advice

Postby lythac » Wed Feb 02, 2011 5:33 pm

With the amount of Gold you have spent on your shoulders, chest, bracers, weapon, 2(!) shields, relic and belt it strikes me as odd that you have zero professions. Even on a ridiculously cheap server you would have spent 45k+ acquiring those items. A more realistic figure is 55k+

1) Whilst Tabarding for Dragonmaw you should also be doing the Therazane dailies (and quest line) in Deepholm for both the shoulder enchant and ring upgrade (346 vs your 325). You can carry tabarding Dragonmaw up to exalted for 359 boots (vs your 333) or swap to Ramkahen for the revered ring 346 (vs your 333, already using Therezane ring) and the exalted bracers 359 (vs your 346). Both choices look valid, I would probably go with carrying on Dragonmaw for the boots.

2) The best way for you to start raiding is with a guild. Your current guild does not look to be the place for that. Put an application in with a guild that is starting raiding and is recruiting a tank. Be honest on your application that you have never raid tanked before but you have read all the tactics and watched videos. Of course everyone on guild applications writes this so link to the guide/video you have watched for effect. And watch the videos.

If your family members are in the guild you're screwed in that respect.

6) You shouldn't be needing to reforge or gem for Expertise and Hit.

Your gear is more than fine for starting to raid but if you want a guild/current guild to take you seriously you need everything enchanted. Heavy Savage Armor Kit is currently your best shoulder option as you lack rep for the Therazane enchant.
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Re: New tank, looking for all kinds of advice

Postby Cutwolf » Wed Feb 02, 2011 6:10 pm

With the amount of Gold you have spent on your shoulders, chest, bracers, weapon, 2(!) shields, relic and belt it strikes me as odd that you have zero professions. Even on a ridiculously cheap server you would have spent 45k+ acquiring those items. A more realistic figure is 55k+


They've been around for awhile with maxed professions as well as accumulating drops that they or their guildies hold on to. It's worked out nicely for me (but not necessarily for their wallets).

How did you know I have 2 shields by the way? Is there a way to view an armory characters bag?

Thanks for the other information.

Why not gem for expertise or hit? I thought it was important to hit the hit cap followed by the expertise cap before stacking parry/dodge/mastery?
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Re: New tank, looking for all kinds of advice

Postby Cutwolf » Wed Feb 02, 2011 7:55 pm

I managed to get into a BH raid...and did well! Granted, I've heard he's a simple and easy raid boss, but it was nice to get my feet wet on the tanking side of things.
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Re: New tank, looking for all kinds of advice

Postby econ21 » Thu Feb 03, 2011 1:19 am

On reforging to threat, I know Elitist Jerks recommend getting to hit and expertise caps but the consensus here is that threat stats are not needed. If you play right, threat is not a problem - especially in a raid context where you benefit from vengeance. I was very reluctant to reforge threat stats to survival ones, but eventually I did it and agree with the consensus - we don't need them.

For 5-mans, having a threat set that met those caps would be fine - recommended even - for someone with your excellent pre-raid gear. Hit for interrupts in a few key fights is a particular example. However, for that, you'd just swap a few pieces (e.g. trinkets) and not reforge your survival gear. I would not bother about your own dps too much - what you are doing sounds fine to me, but it is not something to focus on.

Yes, you should get aggro on all mobs in a 5-man except some that are not supposed to be tanked (malignant trogg, I am looking at you) and perhaps weak AOE foes. A geared dps - especially a plate user - can off tank trash at a pinch, but you are making the already burdened healer's job harder if she does, so best to keep in control where you can. I find the add-ons threat plates and QuickMark help enormously here. Marking a skull more or less stops dps pulling off you; threatplates helps you identify the loose mobs. With 2 taunts - hand of reckoning and righteous fury - and your gear you should be able to control most 5-man fights fine. It will take practice, of course, but soon you will know the 5-mans like the back of your hand.
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Re: New tank, looking for all kinds of advice

Postby Annadin » Thu Feb 03, 2011 6:55 am

Cutwolf wrote:
With the amount of Gold you have spent on your shoulders, chest, bracers, weapon, 2(!) shields, relic and belt it strikes me as odd that you have zero professions. Even on a ridiculously cheap server you would have spent 45k+ acquiring those items. A more realistic figure is 55k+


They've been around for awhile with maxed professions as well as accumulating drops that they or their guildies hold on to. It's worked out nicely for me (but not necessarily for their wallets).

How did you know I have 2 shields by the way? Is there a way to view an armory characters bag?

Thanks for the other information.

Why not gem for expertise or hit? I thought it was important to hit the hit cap followed by the expertise cap before stacking parry/dodge/mastery?


Two shields show up in your Armory activity feed from the same day (5 days ago at the time of writing).

A superficial analysis on my server's Alliance-side AH (reasonably well progressed, well populated) is that your BoEs would cost 98k.

You looted your 100th gold on 5th January this year.

You asked for all kinds of advice...

Don't. Buy. Gold.
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Re: New tank, looking for all kinds of advice

Postby Digren » Thu Feb 03, 2011 7:46 am

Annadin wrote:Don't. Buy. Gold.

To be fair, it's at least possible that his family members showered him with gifts.

Cutwolf:
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Re: New tank, looking for all kinds of advice

Postby Koatanga » Thu Feb 03, 2011 4:18 pm

I find it odd you would pass up Seals of the Pure, yet put all that reforging into hit rating. If threat is an issue, then grab SotP, and use all that reforging for defensive stats.
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Re: New tank, looking for all kinds of advice

Postby Cutwolf » Thu Feb 03, 2011 4:40 pm

Annadin wrote:
Cutwolf wrote:
With the amount of Gold you have spent on your shoulders, chest, bracers, weapon, 2(!) shields, relic and belt it strikes me as odd that you have zero professions. Even on a ridiculously cheap server you would have spent 45k+ acquiring those items. A more realistic figure is 55k+


They've been around for awhile with maxed professions as well as accumulating drops that they or their guildies hold on to. It's worked out nicely for me (but not necessarily for their wallets).

How did you know I have 2 shields by the way? Is there a way to view an armory characters bag?

Thanks for the other information.

Why not gem for expertise or hit? I thought it was important to hit the hit cap followed by the expertise cap before stacking parry/dodge/mastery?


Two shields show up in your Armory activity feed from the same day (5 days ago at the time of writing).

A superficial analysis on my server's Alliance-side AH (reasonably well progressed, well populated) is that your BoEs would cost 98k.

You looted your 100th gold on 5th January this year.

You asked for all kinds of advice...

Don't. Buy. Gold.


You know what they say about assumptions, though I appreciate your concern. You have no idea how many of my family members and friends play WoW on Argent Dawn (and other servers), and the more that do, the less unlikely me getting "98k" for gear sounds. Of course, you're also assuming all of the items were bought on the AH.

I'm a WoW trust fund tank. I embrace that and needed that enticement to come back to the game, mostly because I'm a full time grad student with a girlfriend and don't have the time to farm or profession my way to hundreds of thousands of gold and still see the content I want to see. That's as much as I'm willing to delve into my personal situation.

Thanks to everyone else. I passed up SotP because from the reading I had done, it seemed it wasn't that good of a threat stat. Threat hasn't been an issue, but I reforged all that into hit before I started doing much heroics.

I'm about to redo my gemming and reforging a bit with a focus on survival rather than threat and give it a spin.
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Re: New tank, looking for all kinds of advice

Postby majiben » Fri Feb 04, 2011 10:55 am

Cutwolf wrote:I passed up SotP because from the reading I had done, it seemed it wasn't that good of a threat stat. Threat hasn't been an issue, but I reforged all that into hit before I started doing much heroics.
I was about to say, reckoning before SotP for threat. Also you might be pleasantly surprised what a survival set can pull of in heroics. I have 5 heroic bosses under my belt that I "soloed."
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Re: New tank, looking for all kinds of advice

Postby theckhd » Fri Feb 04, 2011 1:52 pm

majiben wrote:I was about to say, reckoning before SotP for threat. Also you might be pleasantly surprised what a survival set can pull of in heroics. I have 5 heroic bosses under my belt that I "soloed."


The last time LFD gave me heroic Stonecore, I ended up with a healer and warrior that liked to stand in fire. Needless to say, they both died to the first logical opportunity on the first two bosses. The rogue (guildmate) and I basically duo-ed the first two bosses as a result.

The running joke for the rest of the evening was "Paladin Tank: healer optional."
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Re: New tank, looking for all kinds of advice

Postby xstrykr » Fri Feb 04, 2011 2:06 pm

theckhd wrote:
majiben wrote:The running joke for the rest of the evening was "Paladin Tank: healer optional."

I've been in that situation quite a few times myself... it's funnier when the healer goes into DPS mode and does more damage than two of the DPS'ers because they died...
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