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So many trinkets!

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Re: So many trinkets!

Postby econ21 » Sun Jan 30, 2011 5:41 pm

Loras wrote:Unsolvable Riddle gives more dodge on demand actually, since the Agility scales with BoK/MotW


Not for me it doesn't - those numbers I quoted are calculated from running the CTC macro before and after pressing the on use button for each trinket, while practicing on a dummy with BoK up.
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Re: So many trinkets!

Postby Vort » Sun Jan 30, 2011 6:09 pm

I'm not at home so I can't give hard numbers but I'm pretty sure Unsolvable Riddle grants me over just over 5% dodge. It's incredible if you're quite close to the cap and need it for a big string of incoming hits. If I pop it raid buffed I hit the 102.4%, only JUST but that's all I need.
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Re: So many trinkets!

Postby Loras » Sun Jan 30, 2011 10:04 pm

Nah, your numbers are off. I have 11.94% dodge unbuffed, and Unsolvable Riddle gives me something like 3.9x% dodge on use, if I buff myself with BoK/MotW, the dodge goes to 4.0x or something like that.

I don't know what macro you're using, but I can swear I've specifically tested it and seen the numbers on the character sheet increase the proper way.

P.S. And that's the thing that worried me and I was asking in another thread some time ago, but I didn't get a reply. Str -> Parry = 4:1. Agility, on the other hand, I read on these boards, is about 75% as effective as dodge, so should be Agi -> Dodge = 4:3. Which doesn't seem right, cause the Str use trinket from TB gives me just under 2% parry (~1600 str = ~400 parry = ~2% parry I guess), but the Agility on use gives me around 4% dodge, something like 2.x times more than the parry I get, so the ration, from that experiment, would be closer to Agi->Dodge = 2.x : 1. How come?
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Re: So many trinkets!

Postby econ21 » Mon Jan 31, 2011 2:23 am

Loras wrote:Nah, your numbers are off. I have 11.94% dodge unbuffed, and Unsolvable Riddle gives me something like 3.9x% dodge on use, if I buff myself with BoK/MotW, the dodge goes to 4.0x or something like that.


I will check again tonight, but right now, I am not sure why you are disagreeing with me - my 3.97% with kings is the same as your 4.0x to one decimal place. Kings only buffs stats by 5%, so I would not expect a 3.9% to become the 5% Vort reports.

P.S. And that's the thing that worried me and I was asking in another thread some time ago, but I didn't get a reply. Str -> Parry = 4:1. Agility, on the other hand, I read on these boards, is about 75% as effective as dodge, so should be Agi -> Dodge = 4:3. Which doesn't seem right, cause the Str use trinket from TB gives me just under 2% parry (~1600 str = ~400 parry = ~2% parry I guess), but the Agility on use gives me around 4% dodge, something like 2.x times more than the parry I get, so the ration, from that experiment, would be closer to Agi->Dodge = 2.x : 1. How come?


What I took from one of theckhd's posts was that the conversion of agility to dodge for us is typically 0.6 rather than 0.75. I'll also test the strength one tonight and report back.
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Re: So many trinkets!

Postby Loras » Mon Jan 31, 2011 9:03 am

I'm disagreeing only because you said the Agility-on-demand is not affected by BoK, which is not the case :) Should've organized the post better, as half of it was for you, the other half for Vort.

And yeah, 0.6 sounds much more like it. Would be appreciated if you can post the link of that writing if you find it. Thanks :)
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Re: So many trinkets!

Postby econ21 » Mon Jan 31, 2011 10:03 am

Loras, I think we have a miscommunication. I never said agility does not scale with kings. I was just taking issue with your claims that the effects were greater than I reported and that my "numbers are off". My numbers included the effect of kings, although I admit I did not make that explicit in my original post.

The agility conversion is discussed in a post by Digren in Theckhd's thread on armor/mastery/avoidance conversions, which seems to be such a good reference it should be stickied:

http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.com/ ... =viewtopic
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Re: So many trinkets!

Postby Loras » Mon Jan 31, 2011 12:17 pm

Uhm, sort of :) From the way you worded it I understood that for you numbers don't change with or without BoK.
And "your numbers are off" was for Vort, due to saying that trinket gives 5% dodge for him; not for you :)
Sorry for the misunderstanding, think it's all clear now.
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Re: So many trinkets!

Postby Vort » Mon Jan 31, 2011 1:52 pm

Yeh my bad, tested it out again last night and it was a 4.19% Dodge gain. Still not too shabby considering the passive Mastery on it.
Ilyashattack wrote:best ret pally, best prot pally, best jewish paladin, ugliest blood elf haircut person

Gárrosh wrote:You have rung a bell which cannot be unrung. Gladiator Astral and The Scum Cleave are an unstoppable juggernaut of oppression. Can you stop an unstoppable juggernaut of oppression? No you can't it's unstoppable.
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Re: So many trinkets!

Postby econ21 » Mon Jan 31, 2011 3:05 pm

I just tested the trinkets again and their effect on my main is as reported. The TB one with strength on use adds 1.84% parry, as opposed to the 3.97% dodge from the agility one. That's somewhat more favourable to strength than one would expect if agility gave 60% dodge, it's more consistent with a 54% conversion.

Comparing Impetuous Query with the Unsolvable Riddle, one thing I noticed was that the Query has a 10 second effect with a 1 min CD whereas the Riddle is 20 seconds for 2 min. I think I prefer the latter, as I suspect I would only turn to the on use effect occasionally and the longer duration the better.
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