Strength vs mastery (or self healing vs mitigation)

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Re: Strength vs mastery (or self healing vs mitigation)

Postby Cocosavage » Thu Jan 27, 2011 5:15 am

I think intellect is a poor stat for tanks, because the int-> spellpower conversion is roughly 1:1.
+1 strength gives +2 attack power and +0.6 spell power.

Perhaps, a caster weapon could be more interesting (approx +1800 spell power).

Unfortunately crusader strike scales with weapon dps. So tanking with a caster weapon would result in a big dps loss.
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Re: Strength vs mastery (or self healing vs mitigation)

Postby Grae » Thu Jan 27, 2011 1:10 pm

The reason I suggested Int is because you were focusing on mitigation vs self healing only. If threat was part of the equation, then even more stats would come into play.

If the self healing per point of Str is close to the mitigation Mastery, then the self healing per point of Int should be quite a bit better than the mitigation from Mastery.

I thought the point of this post was to show the self healing of gemming Str vs the mitigation of gemming Mastery. If you are looking at self healing, then wouldn't Int net you much more gain than Str?
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Re: Strength vs mastery (or self healing vs mitigation)

Postby theckhd » Thu Jan 27, 2011 3:52 pm

Grae wrote:The reason I suggested Int is because you were focusing on mitigation vs self healing only. If threat was part of the equation, then even more stats would come into play.

If the self healing per point of Str is close to the mitigation Mastery, then the self healing per point of Int should be quite a bit better than the mitigation from Mastery.

I thought the point of this post was to show the self healing of gemming Str vs the mitigation of gemming Mastery. If you are looking at self healing, then wouldn't Int net you much more gain than Str?


No. 1 INT gives you 1 SP and a little spell crit. 1 STR gives you 2 AP and 0.6 SP. Given that all of our spells scale with AP and SP, one point of STR will always give you a larger self-healing bonus than one point of INT.

Just to check, a 40 INT gem gives you 42 intellect after Kings, which is 46 SP and 0.0647% spell crit after raid buffs. That increases each 3-point Word of Glory by 44.6 points of healing on average, and each SoI proc by 7.1 points of healing. These are less than half the amount that a 40 STR gives you.
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Re: Strength vs mastery (or self healing vs mitigation)

Postby Solare » Thu Jan 27, 2011 5:40 pm

theckhd wrote:
No. 1 INT gives you 1 SP and a little spell crit. 1 STR gives you 2 AP and 0.6 SP. Given that all of our spells scale with AP and SP, one point of STR will always give you a larger self-healing bonus than one point of INT.
Wait, even straight healing spells? I know the lion's share of our damage abilities are split coefficients, but healing spells? I think you meant to say, "any healing ability a tankadin would reasonably use in combat scales with AP and SP." Except LoH, for obvious reasons.

That being said, while the reduction in avoidance while casting and the mana-usage makes this more of a tactic for holy paladins, there are instances where using direct heal spells is possible and even recommended for some soloing exploits. I had to break into direct heals when I solo'd the the first boss of Ring of Blood, part 3 in Twilight Highlands while I was leveling. This was before I realized how good Seal of Insight was, so during his whirlwinds and knock-backs, I'd sneak a heal in. Unfortunately, I can't extrapolate if that technique would have been needed if I had just used SoI.
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Re: Strength vs mastery (or self healing vs mitigation)

Postby theckhd » Thu Jan 27, 2011 6:43 pm

Solare wrote:Wait, even straight healing spells? I know the lion's share of our damage abilities are split coefficients, but healing spells? I think you meant to say, "any healing ability a tankadin would reasonably use in combat scales with AP and SP." Except LoH, for obvious reasons.


I have no idea, to be perfectly honest. I've never tested any of the heals with cast times.
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Re: Strength vs mastery (or self healing vs mitigation)

Postby Grae » Fri Jan 28, 2011 7:43 am

theckhd wrote:No. 1 INT gives you 1 SP and a little spell crit. 1 STR gives you 2 AP and 0.6 SP. Given that all of our spells scale with AP and SP, one point of STR will always give you a larger self-healing bonus than one point of INT.

Just to check, a 40 INT gem gives you 42 intellect after Kings, which is 46 SP and 0.0647% spell crit after raid buffs. That increases each 3-point Word of Glory by 44.6 points of healing on average, and each SoI proc by 7.1 points of healing. These are less than half the amount that a 40 STR gives you.


Thank you for the clarification.
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Re: Strength vs mastery (or self healing vs mitigation)

Postby econ21 » Fri Jan 28, 2011 9:34 am

What are the implications of this argument in this thread for strength vs agility? For some jewellery and weapons, we have a choice and often it appears that the agility gear can be better for survival because it gives about 60% dodge, whereas strength gives only 25% parry. Reading this thread, such a comparison does not telling the whole story and that the impact of strength on health may be enough to overturn the apparent superior survivability of some agility gear (e.g. of the bile o tron nut vs signet of the elder council, currently being discussed in the gear section). Can someone put numbers on this?
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Re: Strength vs mastery (or self healing vs mitigation)

Postby theckhd » Fri Jan 28, 2011 10:50 am

That's a good question. One of the things on my "to-do list" for this weekend is to try and work this out for STR/AGI/INT for inclusion in the [Derivation] Armor/Mastery/Avoidance thread.
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