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[10] Maloriak or "Why I hate my life"

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Re: [10] Maloriak or "Why I hate my life"

Postby 2Cute2BeStr8 » Wed Jan 26, 2011 12:44 pm

Just a quick mechanic question. If more abberations are released in green phase; wont the buff autimatically get re-applied to all of them regardless of time left in green phase?
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Re: [10] Maloriak or "Why I hate my life"

Postby Arianne » Wed Jan 26, 2011 12:56 pm

I think it's one spew of green that happens at the beginning of the phase.
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Re: [10] Maloriak or "Why I hate my life"

Postby 2Cute2BeStr8 » Wed Jan 26, 2011 1:10 pm

Arianne wrote:I think it's one spew of green that happens at the beginning of the phase.


I know so does that mean if more abberitions come out ( because they fail to interupt) then wouldn't the one buff they get become reapplied.

The green slime is more of a debuff.
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Re: [10] Maloriak or "Why I hate my life"

Postby Aerron » Wed Jan 26, 2011 1:25 pm

Not 100% sure, but I think the buff isn't applied until the green phase is done. I know we had one pack come out in our green phase last night.

The previous aboms still up were not rebuffed ... not sure if the new aboms gained the buff right away or not. Judging by their health levels though after green phase ended, I would guess not. Like I said, not 100% positive though.
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Re: [10] Maloriak or "Why I hate my life"

Postby Belloc » Wed Jan 26, 2011 2:10 pm

The slime debuff is applied once per green phase. If the adds haven't been released when this happens, they will not get the slime debuff.

Again, once the slime debuff goes out, that's it until the next green phase.
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Re: [10] Maloriak or "Why I hate my life"

Postby 2Cute2BeStr8 » Wed Jan 26, 2011 2:13 pm

I understand the slime debuff, but what I'm asking is if 3 more abbaritions get released, if there are say 4 more abbaritions out( with the slime debuff originally from when he spit it)

Will all 7 of the abbaritions have the buff that makes them deal more damage and take reduced damage. Or will just the 3?

I'm pretty positive all 7 would have the buff.
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Re: [10] Maloriak or "Why I hate my life"

Postby inthedrops » Wed Jan 26, 2011 2:49 pm

As mentioned, the slime cast is done once during the beginning of green phase. The debuff lasts for only 15 seconds after which any remaining adds gains their little "Flask Icon" buff back. If the add wasn't alive when slime was cast, it won't have it. Which means that any adds not existing during the cast won't have it. Which means all adds spawning after it was cast won't have it.

It sounds like in your mind you're thinking of Debiliating Slime as an aura that's up during green phase. It's not an aura.

Edit: These ate the two spells you're asking about, one temporarily suppresses the other:
http://www.wowhead.com/spell=92910
http://www.wowhead.com/spell=77987
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Re: [10] Maloriak or "Why I hate my life"

Postby Treck » Wed Jan 26, 2011 3:52 pm

All new adds spawning after the green phase started, will have Growth Catalyst, and buff eachother.
However the "new" adds wont affect the old adds or the boss untill their debuff runs offb
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Re: [10] Maloriak or "Why I hate my life"

Postby 2Cute2BeStr8 » Wed Jan 26, 2011 6:21 pm

Thanks for clearing that up for me.
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Re: [10] Maloriak or "Why I hate my life"

Postby Kelaan » Tue Feb 22, 2011 11:25 am

I'll post this in the existing Maloriak thread. :)

In 10-man, is using three tanks viable?

The Aberrations that Maloriak spawns have an aura called Growth Catalyst: Increases nearby allies' damage dealt by 20% and reduces damage they take by 20%. Affects all allies within 10. We've been handling this by having one tank pick up all of the adds, ensuring we have no more than 9 on them at a time.

When there are 6-9 adds up, getting hit by all of them (without a cooldown active) is very painful. We have frequently have tank deaths when they either get ice blocked or when we are unable to snare the adds enough that they aren't all hitting the tank all the time. Twelve adds is often a death, barring miracles. When we've not had a hunter for frost traps, we've had a rogue spend 3/4 of the fight using FoK+Crippling Poison to snare them -- and that seems to work pretty well, though it substantially reduces the damage done to the boss (who has a tight enrage), and an ice blocked tank or a movement mistake will lead to the tank taking buckets of damage still.

I think it might be easier to have a plate DPS in my raid who can tank adds with me. This way, we'd have two add-tanking camps, rather than one tank kiting around a snare area. I think it might actually be viable from a healing standpoint.

One tank:
9 adds: One tank takes 9x 280% damage = 2520% damage. (where 120% is one add hitting you)
12 adds: One tank takes 12x 340% damage = 4080% damage (holy crap! 3 more adds almost doubles your damage taken!)
It's extremely challenging to have defensive cooldowns that can keep you up for a sustained beating from 9 adds, let alone 12, for the full time that they're up.

Two tanks:
9 adds: Tank A takes 5x 200% damage, Tank B takes 4x 180% damage = 1720% total damage.
12 adds: Tank A takes 6x 220% damage = 1320% damage, Tank B takes the same, so 2640% total damage.

If my math is correct, This means that in a two-tank setup, there's less actual tank damage taken, despite on two targets. With 9 adds up (ideal), it's 70% of the current tank damage. That's like the tank having a damage reduction cooldown on 100% of the time. With 12 adds up, it's only 65% of the damage that a single tank would take, spread across two targets.

Do you think this is a viable tactic? Am I missing anything major? It seems like the damage loss is roughly similar to having a rogue on snare duty nearly full time, and the risk of spikey tank death looks like it would be substantially less. Granted, most raids don't have three plate wearers, but I know my guild's often do.
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Re: [10] Maloriak or "Why I hate my life"

Postby Trav » Tue Feb 22, 2011 2:27 pm

Kelaan wrote:I'll post this in the existing Maloriak thread. :)

In 10-man, is using three tanks viable?

The Aberrations that Maloriak spawns have an aura called Growth Catalyst: Increases nearby allies' damage dealt by 20% and reduces damage they take by 20%. Affects all allies within 10. We've been handling this by having one tank pick up all of the adds, ensuring we have no more than 9 on them at a time.

When there are 6-9 adds up, getting hit by all of them (without a cooldown active) is very painful. We have frequently have tank deaths when they either get ice blocked or when we are unable to snare the adds enough that they aren't all hitting the tank all the time. Twelve adds is often a death, barring miracles. When we've not had a hunter for frost traps, we've had a rogue spend 3/4 of the fight using FoK+Crippling Poison to snare them -- and that seems to work pretty well, though it substantially reduces the damage done to the boss (who has a tight enrage), and an ice blocked tank or a movement mistake will lead to the tank taking buckets of damage still.

I think it might be easier to have a plate DPS in my raid who can tank adds with me. This way, we'd have two add-tanking camps, rather than one tank kiting around a snare area. I think it might actually be viable from a healing standpoint.

One tank:
9 adds: One tank takes 9x 280% damage = 2520% damage. (where 120% is one add hitting you)
12 adds: One tank takes 12x 340% damage = 4080% damage (holy crap! 3 more adds almost doubles your damage taken!)
It's extremely challenging to have defensive cooldowns that can keep you up for a sustained beating from 9 adds, let alone 12, for the full time that they're up.

Two tanks:
9 adds: Tank A takes 5x 200% damage, Tank B takes 4x 180% damage = 1720% total damage.
12 adds: Tank A takes 6x 220% damage = 1320% damage, Tank B takes the same, so 2640% total damage.

If my math is correct, This means that in a two-tank setup, there's less actual tank damage taken, despite on two targets. With 9 adds up (ideal), it's 70% of the current tank damage. That's like the tank having a damage reduction cooldown on 100% of the time. With 12 adds up, it's only 65% of the damage that a single tank would take, spread across two targets.

Do you think this is a viable tactic? Am I missing anything major? It seems like the damage loss is roughly similar to having a rogue on snare duty nearly full time, and the risk of spikey tank death looks like it would be substantially less. Granted, most raids don't have three plate wearers, but I know my guild's often do.


Depending on your raid's dps, you may run into issues with the enrage timer. Not only are you sacrificing a DPS, but it will take twice as long to AoE down the adds in the green phase.

Let me ask you this: are you showing the math on 12 adds because you are often getting 12 at a time? If so, your issue may be more interrupt problems rather than add tanking problems. 12 is almost a guaranteed wipe right now for me....I'm the add tank. 9 is rough, but with cooldowns is manageable if you time your interrupts right (you want to make sure the 7-9 adds come out at the very last cast before the green phase).

The way we handle our interrupts right now is:

if none are released before first color phase interrupt first red, let second red and both blue get cast. This guarantees 7-9 will be released right before the green phase
Interrupt any green phase release casts. If the rare release cast goes through pre-color phases, we'll interrupt both the first red and first blue cast.
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Re: [10] Maloriak or "Why I hate my life"

Postby Kelaan » Wed Feb 23, 2011 4:41 am

Trav wrote:Not only are you sacrificing a DPS, but it will take twice as long to AoE down the adds in the green phase.

Not twice as long -- you just need to move them together for the AOE portion.

are you showing the math on 12 adds because you are often getting 12 at a time? If so, your issue may be more interrupt problems rather than add tanking problems. 12 is almost a guaranteed wipe right now for me....I'm the add tank.

We had a night with interrupts that were terrible, so that was some motivation, but mainly it was that with six to nine adds on me, if I get hit by an ice block (or am distracted enough by the herd of enemy health bars that I don't see someone else's, which seems common when I'm tying to kite) I pretty much get chewed up FAST. So, I was looking for ways to cut the worst-case damage substantially.

Now that tanks don't get targeted for ice blocks, it's less risky, but we had countless wipes where I was ice blocked (or someone's chained to me). Moreover, sometimes our raid team has been unable to have anyone that can do a snare (not even a shaman). Combine that with the fact that I am add-tanking and can't reliably pay attention to what phase it is (in terms of whether we should or should not interrupt), and I can't babysit the interrupts. That, and we had frequent "whoops I interrupted one by accident" issues with the other paladin tank.
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Re: [10] Maloriak or "Why I hate my life"

Postby Trav » Wed Feb 23, 2011 5:29 am

I think the same patch/hotfix that changed the iceblock mechanic also lengthened the cast time...your interrupters should have an easier time now.

It sounds to me like the fight just really needs to be cleaned up, that's all. People hitting their interrupt assignments, healers knowing that your damage is going to spike for about 10-15 seconds before the green phase, etc. I don't even kite the adds, I just tank and pop GoAK once I have the last of 'em rounded up.

Granted, if you DO try a three-tank set up, let me know how it goes.
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Re: [10] Maloriak or "Why I hate my life"

Postby Shathus » Wed Feb 23, 2011 7:58 am

My concern with 3 tanks is that your phase 2 will last awhile. I guess if one is at least a druid they could go kitty for some extra dps.

Do you have a Shaman, can they use their slow totem? Always glyph of Dazing Shield as well to at least slow 3 of them down at a time while kiting.

As mentioned, just work on your interrupts as well. If done right, you should only have to kite 9 for a short period before the green vial phase as well.
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Re: [10] Maloriak or "Why I hate my life"

Postby Hrobertgar » Wed Feb 23, 2011 8:36 am

I am not so certain about this hotfix to add tank freezes. In both my runs last week, the one I healed and the one I add tanked, the add tanks did get frozen.

As far as adds, I will say that in normal mode, 9 is not that big of an issue for an experienced/geared group, and now that his cast time has been adjusted per 4.0.6, getting more than 9 is not as big of a risk. The previous week, add tanking without a slow cast on the boss usually resulted in 12 adds, which forced me to kite them to survive, this week it was cake.

In the group I healed, we did actually have to face 12 adds once, because overzealous melee kicked too many for first green vial, resulting in only 6 adds. So I made them stop kicking adds altogether for second green vial to ensure we would not have any left over for phase2. Healing the add tank with 12 adds on him was intense, but with bubble-sac and spamming Flash of light for that short period it was manageable, if barely; not to mention painfull on mana.

The group I heal is now powerfull enough that we borrowed a strat one of the posters mentioned for heroic mode: we have ranged burn one of the first 3 adds, which slows dps on the boss so we are less likely to puch him to ph2 prior to the second green vial. We are still starting the first green vial right at 60%, and usually wind up holding back just a tad on the second green vial phase because we did actually push him to phase2 once prior to the second green vial=insta wipe. Burning an add leaves only 8 the green vial, and healing the add tank with only 8 adds isn't bad, and AOEing 8 adds is a tad quicker too. If you are going to try to burn an add, it is best to do it on the first group, before they have too many damage reduction buffs. Sometimes add kicking suffered and a second set came out before the one add went down, extending the ranged burn on that add. We were still able to push phase 2, and hey, burning an add makes the dps happier than picking their nose to prevent pushing ph2 prior to 2nd green vial.
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