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Dual-Spec for Enrage Timers

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Dual-Spec for Enrage Timers

Postby Gaxby » Sun Jan 23, 2011 5:51 am

Is it worth having a threat/single-target tps/dps off-spec to help beat an Enrage Timer on progression? Currently, I use 2 tank specs, but due to the lack of a need for an OT on certain encounters like Magmaw and Atramedes, I'm considering making a ret off-spec to help my guild. But is it necessary?

Don't get me wrong, I do not believe tanks should use one "perfect" spec that's ideal for every encounter. I do like being able to change my glyphs with two specs such as focused shield to dazing shield or HotR glyph to CS glyph. But with threat being a joke right now in Raids past the first 30 seconds, how vital is it still? Plus, if we are wiping due to Enrage timers, is it really the tank's responsibility to change spec to compensate for the lack of DPS/good DPS players?

Is it worth sacrificing my adaptability for the benefit of the guild's progression?
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Re: Dual-Spec for Enrage Timers

Postby Epimer » Sun Jan 23, 2011 9:21 am

If you're tight on an enrage timer, I'd go with a full survivability/WoG build in the hopes that it allows you to take one less healer. So rather than speccing to increase your own DPS by 2k or so, you lighten healer load enough that your raid can bring another 12k-16k or whatever DPS.

Pretty much the only reason I have dual spec is for more flexibility for the sake of guild raids. We're a 10 man guild with a small raiding roster and no required sign-ups, so every bit of flexibility helps. Our other tank is Prot/Ret, so I've chosen to go Prot/Holy this time around. It helps the raid out because we have the flexibility to subtract a tank and add a healer or a DPS as required (there's a lazer chicken with a feral off-spec too). Selfishly, I'm going to gear up quicker as Holy because there's significantly less competition for loot, too.

I'm not sure there's too many situations where a Prot/Prot setup is entirely justifiable these days, especially given the shortened talent trees. As you say, glyph switching already offers a lot of flexibility. There are always exceptions, but unless it's an extremely fixed raiding roster and you're always, always the one tanking, I think that having a completely different spec available is more worthwhile.
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Re: Dual-Spec for Enrage Timers

Postby Koatanga » Sun Jan 23, 2011 12:40 pm

It depends how tight you are on enrage timers and what the healing issues are that cause you to use an extra healer.

Some fight mechanics are a lot more easily avoidable once people have seen them a few times, so the healing pressure eases. Others remain a complete bear to manage and you need the extra healer.

I think it is viable to go prot/prot, because on my realm tanks are scarce. Dungeon queues for non-tanks are long, and guilds struggle to amass enough tanks to run all of the DPS and healers who want to go.

I am currently prot/holy, but I have healed exactly once in this xpac. I could easily drop the holy spec as it would have no impact whatsoever - I always run as a tank.
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Re: Dual-Spec for Enrage Timers

Postby theckhd » Sun Jan 23, 2011 7:50 pm

There really isn't enough variation in our tree at the moment to warrant a second spec. I just run a full survivability build and use that as an all-purpose tanking spec. I have a ret off-spec for the one-tank fights.
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Re: Dual-Spec for Enrage Timers

Postby Koatanga » Sun Jan 23, 2011 11:18 pm

Our other tank is a DK. DK DPS >>>>> Ret DPS, so I tank.
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Re: Dual-Spec for Enrage Timers

Postby theckhd » Mon Jan 24, 2011 10:22 am

Koatanga wrote:Our other tank is a DK. DK DPS >>>>> Ret DPS, so I tank.

Our other tank is a Paladin with a Holy off-spec. Ret DPS >>>> Holy DPS, so he tanks. ;)
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Re: Dual-Spec for Enrage Timers

Postby Gaxby » Mon Jan 24, 2011 10:48 am

In my 10 man group, the other tank is a DK (blood/unholy). How does that compare with (Prot/Ret)?

So how does your guild deal with rotating between two tanks and gear distribution (for both prot and ret gear).
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Re: Dual-Spec for Enrage Timers

Postby Aerron » Mon Jan 24, 2011 11:56 am

In our 10 man, I share tanking with a Warrior. We tend to switch it up as the fight calls for.

Some examples:

- On Magmaw, he usually tanks and I go ret, if we don't have anyone else in the raid with Replineshment. Otherwise, vice versa.

- On Atramedes, he goes dps.

Of the dps specs available for Tank classes, I think Ret is behind the others a bit. However, we bring other things like the damage auras and Replineshment as I mentioned above. So really, it's very situational.
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Re: Dual-Spec for Enrage Timers

Postby Koatanga » Mon Jan 24, 2011 12:02 pm

theckhd wrote:Our other tank is a Paladin with a Holy off-spec. Ret DPS >>>> Holy DPS, so he tanks. ;)

I did a heroic the other day with one of those idiots who thinks holy DPS is a viable spec.
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Re: Dual-Spec for Enrage Timers

Postby theckhd » Mon Jan 24, 2011 12:12 pm

Gaxby wrote:In my 10 man group, the other tank is a DK (blood/unholy). How does that compare with (Prot/Ret)?

So how does your guild deal with rotating between two tanks and gear distribution (for both prot and ret gear).


Unholy seems to be significantly ahead of Ret for most fights, assuming other factors (gear, skill) are equal.

As far as rotating tanks, we don't have anything formal arranged. On a one-tank boss, he (Prot/Holy) tanks unless the fight would be easier with +1 healer rather than +1 DPS. Since that's rarely the case, he tanks everything and I go Ret. The third tank (warrior) goes DPS for most fights that don't need 3 tanks. On occasion I'll offer to stay Ret and let the warrior off-tank, especially if it means I can save some $$ by not having to change flasks. And because I pull over twice his DPS. And I have a Zin'rokh, and smashing things in the face with a giant Troll sword is fun.

We do loot by loot council (though I think there's a hidden suicide-kings-like system to keep track of things), and the Prot/Holy tank is the GM. So basically he decides who gets stuff. Which you would think is a recipe for disaster, but it turns out to be completely drama-free.

He and I get along very well, and have played together in some capacity since Classic. He was promoted to an Officer/co-GM position in my old guild at the beginning of BC, during my leave of absence, and I took over again at the end of BC when he was burned out. So we have a lot of common experience, especially when it comes to running guilds and handing loot out to people.

Neither of us care about loot as much as downing bosses, so in general he and I just try and spread the wealth between our tanking sets. Most of the time, that means whomever gets the bigger upgrade from an item gets it, but occasionally we'll negotiate or pass on stuff we're not as interested in.

Example #1: One of our first Conclave kills resulted in the dodge/parry ring dropping. He asked if I wanted it, I said "I'd use it, but I'd rather have the avoidance/mastery one, so if you want that one go ahead and take it." He takes ring, and a few weeks later when an avoid/mastery one drops, I get it.

Example #2: He bought the BoE world drop shield because he's an AH baron and has loads of gold. I didn't feel the upgrade over the blue JP shield was worth 40k+ gold (or about 25% of my net worth), so I just waited. I got the first shield drop from Nefarian as a result.

Since he and I are the tanks for our 10-man 'clean-up crew' (finish up anything left after our 2 nights of 25-man raiding at the end of the week), we usually get things faster than the third tank just by virtue of raiding more hours (tanks 4+ are all off-spec). So we tend to get the stuff we want the first time it drops, because the third tank is still getting upgrades from our "leftovers." All of the other tanks only get off-spec loot, since they're main-spec DPS. Similarly, I only get Ret gear if it goes to off-spec. Priority is always MS>OS>DE.
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Re: Dual-Spec for Enrage Timers

Postby bldavis » Tue Jul 26, 2011 8:57 pm

i know this is a necro thread due to a spammer, but i have a dps spec on all my tanks
and as far as raiding tanks, my other one is a tankadin with tons of offspec gear, but no desire to do anything but tank

besides she is my GM so .....
add that to the fact i LIKE kitty and we are golden!
when i am kitty i am normally 2-3 in our 10 mans

tl:dr kitty dps >>>>>> tankadin dps, or lolwtfamidoingretdps
Image

Brekkie:Tanks are like shitty DPS. And healers are like REALLY distracted DPS
Amirya:Why yes, your penis is longer than his because you hit 30k dps in the first 10 seconds. But guess what? That raid boss has a dick bigger than your ego.
Flex:I don't make mistakes. I execute carefully planned strategic group wipes.
Levie:(in /g) It's weird, I have a collar and I dont know where I got it from, Worgen are kinky!
Levie:Drunk Lev goes and does what he pleases just to annoy sober Lev.
Sagara:You see, you need to *spread* the bun before you insert the hot dog.
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