Petrus' Cataclysm Master Gear List

Get help with your character's gear

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Re: Petrus' Cataclysm Master Gear List

Postby Dunkan » Sun Jan 16, 2011 6:20 am

Just a suggestion, but how about merging the profession trinkets with the other trinkets?

Stuck out there like that makes it difficult to compare.
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Re: Petrus' Cataclysm Master Gear List

Postby Fayia » Mon Jan 17, 2011 2:36 am

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/l ... eil/simple

Seems Paragon discovered a tanking sword that is not on the list...the Fang of Twilight?
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Re: Petrus' Cataclysm Master Gear List

Postby Throb » Mon Jan 17, 2011 6:21 am

Fayia wrote:http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/lightnings-blade/lazeil/simple

Seems Paragon discovered a tanking sword that is not on the list...the Fang of Twilight?


It drops off of Valonia and is an Agi/Crit/Mastery sword. So, it's a tanking sword in the same regard that Belt of the Ferocious Wolf is a tanking belt. It's good if you don't have anything better.
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Re: Petrus' Cataclysm Master Gear List

Postby Siral » Tue Jan 18, 2011 4:05 am

A question about Ironstar's Impenetrable Cover (not the heroic one).

For which tanking class is better than the reputation one? Not for sure for paladin (dodge/mastery >>>> dodge/parry)
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Re: Petrus' Cataclysm Master Gear List

Postby econ21 » Tue Jan 18, 2011 6:44 am

Throb wrote:
Fayia wrote:http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/lightnings-blade/lazeil/simple

Seems Paragon discovered a tanking sword that is not on the list...the Fang of Twilight?


It drops off of Valonia and is an Agi/Crit/Mastery sword. So, it's a tanking sword in the same regard that Belt of the Ferocious Wolf is a tanking belt. It's good if you don't have anything better.


Not quite - the agility makes it good for survival (whereas the belt is a strength item). It's more comparable to the Earthen ring reputation ring and the Don Flamingo's neck - something that is not intended for tanking, but may be better than comparable items that are intended for tanking. You are trading off some threat for some survivability. Compare it to the Mace of Acrid Death - that gives you 118 parry; but this sword gives you about 143 dodge (0.6*165 dodge from its agility and 44 dodge from reforging the crit).

I don't quite understand the prejudice against agility for tanks. It's like disdaining the WW2 88mm gun as an anti-tank weapon just because it was designed to shoot down planes, not tanks.
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Re: Petrus' Cataclysm Master Gear List

Postby Nikachelle » Tue Jan 18, 2011 7:50 am

If anything, this board was NOT prejudiced against agility at all for tanks. Most of us used agility/stam gems and agility enchants in Wrath. That being said, I don't know the current math, but it doesn't seem people are as gungho about agility in Cataclysm as they were before.
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Re: Petrus' Cataclysm Master Gear List

Postby Earantur » Tue Jan 18, 2011 9:29 pm

Have you specifically avoided putting green gear on the list? There's a crafted belt(http://www.wowhead.com/item=55027) and quest reward belt(http://www.wowhead.com/item=63868) that both seem to me to be better than the starter zone blues on the list.
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Re: Petrus' Cataclysm Master Gear List

Postby econ21 » Wed Jan 19, 2011 4:21 am

econ21 wrote: ...the Fang of Twilight ... Compare it to the Mace of Acrid Death - that gives you 118 parry; but this sword gives you about 143 dodge (0.6*165 dodge from its agility and 44 dodge from reforging the crit).


Um, I realise I have forgotten the contribution of strength to parry from the Mace (0.25*165=41). That makes the mace better for survival. So the tanking weapon is better, but it is close (159 parry vs 143 dodge).
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Re: Petrus' Cataclysm Master Gear List

Postby lythac » Wed Jan 19, 2011 5:01 am

Nikachelle wrote:If anything, this board was NOT prejudiced against agility at all for tanks. Most of us used agility/stam gems and agility enchants in Wrath. That being said, I don't know the current math, but it doesn't seem people are as gungho about agility in Cataclysm as they were before.


It was the removal of agility providing armor, and str proving parry that killed it off mostly. In Cata there aren't any agility enchants/gems that are BiS and it is not a reforgable stat. So the only place to pick it up is on jewelry and it has to have mastery on to make it an option. And there are always str alternatives for the slot.

Agility is still teh sex.

Also we can't praise it too much as a lot of inexperienced paladins might start going for some weird items just because they have agility on them due to hearing agility provides more than twice the avoidance of str.
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Re: Petrus' Cataclysm Master Gear List

Postby aureon » Wed Jan 19, 2011 12:42 pm

Why aren't the WotLK armor trinket present?
The petrified twilight scale off Halion is surely better than Bedrock talisman, and by a pretty wide margin.
Unidentifiable Organ seems VERY good, too.
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Re: Petrus' Cataclysm Master Gear List

Postby lythac » Wed Jan 19, 2011 2:16 pm

aureon wrote:Why aren't the WotLK armor trinket present?


Patch 4.0.6 - Lich King trinkets with bonus armor values have been adjusted using the new Cataclysm formula, reducing their armor values substantially.

Would be my guess.
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Re: Petrus' Cataclysm Master Gear List

Postby inthedrops » Sat Jan 22, 2011 3:59 pm

Treck posted some missing waist and ring pieces from CoW and I think it's very important to have them in the gear list considering they are close to if not sometimes best in slot.

Here are a couple screenshots of some I've managed to grab. Treck included all the details you need to know though in his excellent post a page or two back:

Image

(Note that the ring is ilvl 372)
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Hah, I just realized you all get to know what I name my gearsets :)
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Re: Petrus' Cataclysm Master Gear List

Postby majorwoo » Mon Jan 24, 2011 12:03 pm

inthedrops wrote:
Hah, I just realized you all get to know what I name my gearsets :)


I want to know the difference between "mastery" and "super mastery". I have a suspicion it is something I looked at doing myself, but decided against.
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Re: Petrus' Cataclysm Master Gear List

Postby inthedrops » Mon Jan 24, 2011 1:11 pm

majorwoo wrote:
inthedrops wrote:
Hah, I just realized you all get to know what I name my gearsets :)


I want to know the difference between "mastery" and "super mastery". I have a suspicion it is something I looked at doing myself, but decided against.


It's more for fun than actual use in raids. It's the gear I have with the most mastery on it. Puts me a bit above 62% block and like 145k health. I don't think I've actually worn it in a raid though so it's more of a "how high can I go" thing.
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Re: Petrus' Cataclysm Master Gear List

Postby yappo » Mon Jan 24, 2011 4:10 pm

inthedrops wrote:It's more for fun than actual use in raids. It's the gear I have with the most mastery on it. Puts me a bit above 62% block and like 145k health. I don't think I've actually worn it in a raid though so it's more of a "how high can I go" thing.


You're sick and perverted :D

Extrapolating from my set it should see you at 93% CTC.
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Re: Petrus' Cataclysm Master Gear List

Postby inthedrops » Mon Jan 24, 2011 4:37 pm

Hah, just checked:
145k health
10.29 dodge
13.34 parry
62.50% block
91.93 before raid buffs.

I still have a crappy helm with only 56 reforged mastery on it. But I equip Earthshape Pauldrons, The Lustrous Eye, and Red Rock Band as items I don't normally wear (I have better all around pieces). Obviously two mastery trinkets. I could probably get another 0.5% or more with some regemming but like I said, I've never tanked in this. Maybe I should try :)

I keep meaning to see what the heck CTC means but assume it just means hot close to unhittable one is.

Edit: Oh, Combat Table Coverage.
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Re: Petrus' Cataclysm Master Gear List

Postby Treck » Tue Jan 25, 2011 5:28 pm

I think [Cloak of Biting Chill] should be added to the list, as it appears to be the best back ingame for us atm. For some reason theres no 372 "tanking" cloak available.
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Re: Petrus' Cataclysm Master Gear List

Postby yappo » Wed Jan 26, 2011 2:07 am

Treck wrote:I think [Cloak of Biting Chill] should be added to the list, as it appears to be the best back ingame for us atm. For some reason theres no 372 "tanking" cloak available.


Hmm, we're going to see shammies, rogues and druids paying for hitmen to come after maintankadin :D

And yes, I'm well aware that the agi/mastery slots tend to be fantastic for us. Just hard to convince the agi-dps that we're rolling on a tanking-upgrade. Looks a bit similar to holydins rolling on cloth the last X-pac.
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Re: Petrus' Cataclysm Master Gear List

Postby Treck » Wed Jan 26, 2011 2:13 am

yappo wrote: Just hard to convince the agi-dps that we're rolling on a tanking-upgrade. Looks a bit similar to holydins rolling on cloth the last X-pac.

Atleast everywhere i went, it was generally acceptable for paladins (of both holy and ret) to sport mail/leather/cloth just cuz the stats were better and the armor didnt make any real difference anyway.
If its BiS, its BiS, be it for a tank or a dps.
Who its the biggest upgrade for, is another story, but its also more of a guild based decision at that point
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Re: Petrus' Cataclysm Master Gear List

Postby yappo » Wed Jan 26, 2011 2:33 am

Treck wrote:Who its the biggest upgrade for, is another story, but its also more of a guild based decision at that point


Ah, but I'm a puggie :D
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Re: Petrus' Cataclysm Master Gear List

Postby Digren » Wed Jan 26, 2011 2:53 pm

inthedrops wrote:Treck posted some missing waist and ring pieces from CoW and I think it's very important to have them in the gear list considering they are close to if not sometimes best in slot.

Here are a couple screenshots of some I've managed to grab. Treck included all the details you need to know though in his excellent post a page or two back:

Image

These are pretty good. Details for all three tanking options:
...of the Bedrock
+380 Stamina, +232 Strength, +160 Mastery Rating, +160 Parry Rating
...of the Bouldercrag
+380 Stamina, +232 Strength, +160 Dodge Rating, +160 Parry Rating
...of the Rockslab
+380 Stamina, +232 Strength, +160 Mastery Rating, +160 Dodge Rating

I've flagged Rockstab and Bedrock as best in slot, with Bouldercrag behind. All three are better than the Hardened Elementium Girdle and the Jumbotron Power Belt, at least in my maths.
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Re: Petrus' Cataclysm Master Gear List

Postby Treck » Wed Jan 26, 2011 5:00 pm

I wouldnt say
...of the Bouldercrag
+380 Stamina, +232 Strength, +160 Dodge Rating, +160 Parry Rating

Is better than Jumbotron Power Belt
But both Bedrock and Rockslab are great alternatives to Jumbotron as comparing normal vs normal and hc vs hc, the throne loot wins over Omnotrons.
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Re: Petrus' Cataclysm Master Gear List

Postby Digren » Wed Jan 26, 2011 5:46 pm

Treck wrote:I wouldnt say
...of the Bouldercrag
+380 Stamina, +232 Strength, +160 Dodge Rating, +160 Parry Rating

Is better than Jumbotron Power Belt
But both Bedrock and Rockslab are great alternatives to Jumbotron as comparing normal vs normal and hc vs hc, the throne loot wins over Omnotrons.

Both have identical stamina and armor. Once properly enhanced, and assuming that parry is reforged to mastery on the Bouldercrag, the differences are:
Code: Select all
Jumbotron           Bouldercrag
+95 mastery rating
                    +21 dodge rating
                    +111 parry rating

We need to assume existing values for post-DR dodge and parry, which I'll set to 13.5% dodge and 14.5% parry (about the numbers that Theck's raid gear set has).

What I want to do is calculate the amount of mastery rating necessary to equal the damage reduction of the Bouldercrag's avoidance rating. From Theck's maths:
Code: Select all
dD/Do = -dAr*Fa/(Ar+K)*[1-Av-0.4*B] - Fa*[dAv+0.4*dB]           (4)

Fortunately dAr is 0 in this comparison. I will break dAv down into dAvd and dAvp.
Code: Select all
dD/Do = - Fa*[dAvd + dAvp + 0.4*dB]

Because we're trying to find an equivalence, we want the amount of dB such that
Code: Select all
dAvd + dAvp = 0.4 * dB


From Theck
Code: Select all
dA' = (dA/k)*(1-A'/C)^2   (10)

Where dA' is the post-DR avoidance provided by pre-DR dA, A' is character sheet post-DR avoidance (i.e. (char_sheet_dodge_% - 3.9705) or (char_sheet_parry_% - 5)).

dA must be derived from rating, which is "0.01*dRv/Ca, the added avoidance rating divided by the avoidance rating conversion factor (Ca=176.7189) times 0.01 to put it in decimal notation."
Thus
Code: Select all
dAd = 0.01 * 21 / 176.7189 = 0.00119        (A)
dAp = 0.01 * 111 / 176.7189 = 0.00628       (B)
Ad' = 0.135 - 0.039705 = 0.095295           (C)
Ap' = 0.145 - 0.05 = 0.095                  (D)
k = 0.9560
C = 0.65631440
dAvd = 0.000908                             (E)
dAvp = 0.004805                             (F)

Thus
Code: Select all
dAvd + dAvp = 0.005714 = 0.4 * dB
dB = 0.01428                                (G)

dB is easy to convert to dRm, because dB = 0.0225/Cm*dRm where Cm=179.28 @ level 85 per Theck. Thus
Code: Select all
dB * Cm / 0.0225 = dRm
dRm = 113.8


In other words, given my initial assumptions, it would take 114 mastery rating to equal the damage-reduction of 21 dodge rating plus 111 parry rating. This seems to make sense; in Theck's math in his derivation spreadsheet, he assumed smaller percentages of post-DR avoidance, and yielded a result where 122 mastery rating was equal to 132 avoidance rating. Here, I'm assuming a raider with greater DR, and thus slightly less mastery rating is necessary to match the avoidance rating.

So what does that mean? Well, the Jumbotron only provides 95 mastery rating, less than the 114 mastery rating necessary to match the Bouldercrag. Thus, Thunder Wall Belt of the Bouldercrag (non-heroic) is better than the Jumbotron Power Belt (non-heroic) for damage reduction.
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Re: Petrus' Cataclysm Master Gear List

Postby Digren » Wed Jan 26, 2011 7:55 pm

I edited the above to correct a previous mis-statement.
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Re: Petrus' Cataclysm Master Gear List

Postby Treck » Thu Jan 27, 2011 5:20 am

Digren wrote:This seems to make sense; in Theck's math in his derivation spreadsheet, he assumed smaller percentages of post-DR avoidance, and yielded a result where 122 mastery rating was equal to 132 avoidance rating.

So what does that mean? Well, the Jumbotron only provides 95 mastery rating, less than the 114 mastery rating necessary to match the Bouldercrag.

Im not doubting your math, im just very suprised at the mastery vs avoidance correlations.
I thought 122mastery would be a lot better than just equal to 132 avoidance rating.
Altho i have noticed something of this effect while using Chardev, since i dont do the math, i let that do it for me (to see the % gain from different gearparts, and i do hope its correct)

Atleast i got 372 of the rockslab on both ring/belt, so im not looking for any upgrades ^^
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