Ghostcrawler speaks about future patches

[Kelaan]

You mean the problem where we don't do enough damage with 0 vengeance to have aggro over DPS? I'm not having the same experience. I do more than enough damage with 0 vengeance to have aggro as long as the DPS are actually attacking my target. I mean, maybe my DPS suck? I don't think so.

I have a few people that give me a run for my money, threat-wise, in heroics. However, that's because I am spending my holy power on Word of Glory instead of ShoR so much of the time, and using Seal of Insight instead of Vengeance. When WoG is less critical, there's no worries whatsoever. (Our warlock, rogue, and mages can really push the limits though. )

[Chunes]

After some of the "your dps are doing what kind of numbers?! O_o" responses I went back and took a much closer look at the offending class's threat output. The DK's 17-20k threat output is indeed bursty and proc dependent. So while it's a nuisance, it's manageable.

The hunter, however, is pulling 17-18k sustained, single target, in heroics. Fortunately feign death is there for a reason. Still, I am concerned with this considering that this is the first tier of gear and DPS, presumable will continue to climb.

Without lolvengeance, the only recourse for me will be stacking absurd levels of expertise to approach the hard cap, or STR. Neither of which seem all that appetizing if there is any survivability concern in future 5man content.

[DJSticky]

If the tank has a steady self-HPS income, a healer familiar with the tank may be less likely to make the prioritization misjudgement (point 2), and the tank may survive a case of technical difficulty (point 3) that he would otherwise not. It can also help compensate for undergeared healers (point 4).

My biggest point.

[tlitp]

I can think of no better place to post this teaser. Self-healing makes you cool, yeah.

[Sabindeus]

I can think of no better place to post this teaser. Self-healing makes you cool, yeah. :lol:

Well it apparently isn't necessary/doesn't work on super hard bosses for super elite guilds, because their paladin tank is way at the bottom. :x

[Paxen]

I can think of no better place to post this teaser. Self-healing makes you cool, yeah.

Well it apparently isn't necessary/doesn't work on super hard bosses for super elite guilds, because their paladin tank is way at the bottom.

I can well believe that a 30k dps death knight makes you use more ShoRs.

[Sabindeus]

I can think of no better place to post this teaser. Self-healing makes you cool, yeah. :lol:

Well it apparently isn't necessary/doesn't work on super hard bosses for super elite guilds, because their paladin tank is way at the bottom. :x

I can well believe that a 30k dps death knight makes you use more ShoRs.

me too!

[fuzzygeek]

I can think of no better place to post this teaser. Self-healing makes you cool, yeah.

I'm actually really glad for this. If the paladin tank was doing obviously broken amounts of self healing on this fight it would probably be nerfs ahoy.

As is, it's nice to have the option to explore ... alternative playstyles. Not everyone is in a guild with members as skilled or focused as, say, Paragon, where you can focus on just the task at hand because you know the other guys are going to do their frickin' jobs without any help from you.

[Belloc]

I can think of no better place to post this teaser. Self-healing makes you cool, yeah.

Well it apparently isn't necessary/doesn't work on super hard bosses for super elite guilds, because their paladin tank is way at the bottom.

I can well believe that a 30k dps death knight makes you use more ShoRs.

The fight has adds, which is almost certainly where that 30k dps came from.

[Diocaska]

One site a Priest in our guild found is State of DPS.

Seems like a good place to make an educated guess at which classes any buffs/nerfs will be targeted at.

[masterpoobaa]

O Dear.
Poor Poor BM, MM and Subtlety.

[majiben]

O Dear.
Poor Poor BM, MM and Subtlety.

You'll notice that for those specs, the sample size is much smaller, especially Sub rogues. We also have to consider that those specs have other dps options especially the hunter, which has a top dps choice in survival.

[Skye1013]

O Dear.
Poor Poor BM, MM and Subtlety.

You'll notice that for those specs, the sample size is much smaller, especially Sub rogues. We also have to consider that those specs have other dps options especially the hunter, which has a top dps choice in survival.

Sub rogues (to my knowledge) have never been seriously used for raiding (unless you count the HAT spec, or similarly "broken" specs.) So it doesn't surprise me that there isn't much data for them. Sub is more of a PvP spec than anything.

[Mannstein]

If you just look to the classes.. guess which one is the worst...

(even when you think on a moonkin as a different class from feral the result is the same)

TL:DR
QQQQQQQ

[daemonym]

After some of the "your dps are doing what kind of numbers?! O_o" responses I went back and took a much closer look at the offending class's threat output. The DK's 17-20k threat output is indeed bursty and proc dependent. So while it's a nuisance, it's manageable.

The hunter, however, is pulling 17-18k sustained, single target, in heroics. Fortunately feign death is there for a reason. Still, I am concerned with this considering that this is the first tier of gear and DPS, presumable will continue to climb.

Without lolvengeance, the only recourse for me will be stacking absurd levels of expertise to approach the hard cap, or STR. Neither of which seem all that appetizing if there is any survivability concern in future 5man content.

You have to keep in mind though that when a DK crits, they will crit HARD and do not have any form of a "woops i has threat" button. In heroics and 10s my DK regularly spend the first 20 seconds auto attacking because if I crit with an oblit I pull threat. And unless there's a decent amount of time where I'm not on the boss and the tank is I have to spend another good 20 seconds doing nothing because of threat.

Perhaps it's time to yell at hunters and rogues to start feeding tanks threat again. And I agree that things will only get worse threat wise because that's just how it goes, DPS scales faster than threat and I'm already able to do 15k single target with scarce 5m buffs and don't have any raid gear yet, just heroic blues.