Random Pondering

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Re: Random Pondering

Postby Passionario » Fri Jan 21, 2011 2:34 am

To put things into perspective, consider this: would you rather be invisible or inaudible?

One of these qualities is a classic superpower. The other is pretty much a disability.

Now, which of these two would you give to the entire world to use against yourself?
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Re: Random Pondering

Postby Skye1013 » Fri Jan 21, 2011 3:16 am

While silence is nice on occasion, being in that permanent state would likely drive me insane. On the other hand... not having to look at the way people dress (spandex + overweight != sexy) might be a blessing in disguise.
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Re: Random Pondering

Postby Hokahey » Fri Jan 21, 2011 3:24 am

Passionario wrote:To put things into perspective, consider this: would you rather be invisible or inaudible?

One of these qualities is a classic superpower. The other is pretty much a disability.

Now, which of these two would you give to the entire world to use against yourself?


:lol:
That's an interesting analogy, but a fairly cynical outlook. The "entire world" using its powers against me? I think that is unlikely, probably only those meant to do me harm, and those people would likely harm me if they had the oppurtunity regardless of my particular vulnerability. Lets also consider that being inaudible can be almost as powerful as being invisible (and sometimes moreso).

In fiction and comic books, when the hero doesn't want to be heard, he just isn't, while effectively violating physical laws (like how light works) requires superhuman abilities or sufficiently advanced technology, so more emphasis is placed there. Often times, though, the ability to be unheard is just as important to the story as being invisible. Vampire: the Masquerade even had a Vampire Clan (they were all super-assassins) whose signature ability was a Discipline called Quietus, which did pretty much what you think it does.

I guess I'm an optimist at heart, because I refuse to believe that everyone is out to do me harm at the first oppurtunity. I have enough faith in humanity that if most people saw me in vulnerability unless they were previously otherwise inclined, they would do what they reassonably could to help me, not hurt me. On the other hand, I'm realistic enough to believe that for the vast majority of people, "helping" would be nothing more than not actively sabotaging my efforts or harming me.

Still going with blindness.
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Re: Random Pondering

Postby Gaxby » Fri Jan 21, 2011 5:50 am

Being blind isn't that bad. I mean come on, Atramedes is and she's still bad-ass!

/sarcasm
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Re: Random Pondering

Postby Skye1013 » Fri Jan 21, 2011 5:58 am

Hokahey wrote:Vampire: the Masquerade even had a Vampire Clan (they were all super-assassins) whose signature ability was a Discipline called Quietus, which did pretty much what you think it does.


Of course Obfuscate being another clan Discipline for the Assmites (yes, I know I spelt it incorrectly, I used to play a MuD based on V:tM, which eventually led to this term of "endearment"), which covered the "invisible" part, but yeah, never underestimate the power of sneakiness.
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Re: Random Pondering

Postby Treck » Fri Jan 21, 2011 9:12 am

Its a really tough choice tbh.
And i think most people haste through it when making up their mind (theres a lot of things to consider and i dont think you could ever get ready to make a call like that)
Id prolly manage better without hearing than vision at this stage.
As i could then still do my everyday tasks, since i can actually see where im stepping.
While you can see others faces, computerscreens and read books (who does that these days tho :P) you would not feel as handicapped as loosing your vision, since you rely on it on a daily basis a lot more than sound.
Going blind on the spot is hard to adjust to after +20 years of vision tho.
Even so, loosing your hearing is a lot to adjust to aswell.
Communication while beeing deaf is pretty limited, i cannot immagine a life without verbal communication.
I know this is pretty unrelated to wow, but immagine comparing raiding by only using the chat, or with vent? There the choice is pretty clear imo, but its a bad way of comparing if Deaf or blind is more preferable obviously.
Altho you can communicate with deaf people by using sign language, and you can obviously write, its both slower than verbal communication, aswell as not many people can communicate with sign language, limiting your communication range a lot imo.

Never again seeing your loved once face again vs never hearing their voice again, i hope i would never have to choose tbh, but both are devastating, likely as of right now id go with going blind.
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Re: Random Pondering

Postby fuzzygeek » Fri Jan 21, 2011 11:01 am

The IT guy at my BiL's office is blind. Reportedly he's very, very good.

Personally I'd rather be deaf than blind. Too much of what I do and enjoy depends on vision -- blind client for WoW? Yeah, doubtful. Ever meet a blind chef? What about a woodworker?

It would be interesting to try it for a day. Go through a day with earplugs in. Go through a day with a blindfold on.

For me it's a no brainer; it's interesting to see the reasoning behind people who choose the other.

With regards to communication: you can still talk. And learn to read the other person's lips. And given the pretty impressive speech-to-text technology nowadays, you can have your phone app transcribe other people for you.

I communicate with other people far more via text than speech (speech too slow) normally so this doesn't bother me much, to be fair.
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Re: Random Pondering

Postby Treck » Fri Jan 21, 2011 11:42 am

fuzzygeek wrote:Too much of what I do and enjoy depends on vision -- blind client for WoW? Yeah, doubtful.
Ever meet a blind chef?
What about a woodworker?

This is very personal what you wanna work with, and would obviously impact a choice like this.
Wow is a big thing in my life currently, but will it be in 10years? tbh i hope not. And even going deaf would take a lot of the enjoyment out of it, since a lot of the reason atleast i play is to actually get to know the people aswell, chatting doesnt really catch up.

fuzzygeek wrote:It would be interesting to try it for a day. Go through a day with earplugs in. Go through a day with a blindfold on.

Problem with this is that if you have vision, you rely a lot more on that when progressing through the day.
If you take that away from someone who have used it for +20years, your not gonna know how it feels to be blind untill you get used to it.
Getting used to never seeing colors, faces, surfaces anymore, where you cant just flip the blindfold and have it all back.
Dont think you can really immagine how it is to be blind untill you are.
Earplugs doesnt stop all sound, even the best earplugs doesnt, atleast when you talk, sound still goes through your skull into your ear, and wont be stopped, making the experience a lot different from actually never hearing a sound.
Ever been in a close to perfect acustic room? Where there are no eco or sound from outside sources.
All you can hear is your own body working, from the inside (and its not very quiet), im just asuming a deaf man cant hear any of that.
Even so its a lot less sound, making your head work like crazy since it cannot understand why you cant hear any "regular" sound, 5min in a room like that give me a massive headace.


fuzzygeek wrote:For me it's a no brainer; it's interesting to see the reasoning behind people who choose the other.
With regards to communication: you can still talk. And learn to read the other person's lips. And given the pretty impressive speech-to-text technology nowadays, you can have your phone app transcribe other people for you.
I communicate with other people far more via text than speech (speech too slow) normally so this doesn't bother me much, to be fair.

Yes you can talk, but you cant hear what your saying, so you dont know if what your saying makes sence.
If you would loose your hearing as of right now, you could keep talking by just sheer musclememory for likely a year or smth before people start noticing your speech is starting to get sloppy.
Reading lips is doable, it depends a lot on the person your "reading".
Speech-to-text is always going to be slower and harder than normal speech, and i think people would sometimes think twice before bringing something up to you, since its just easier doing it with someone else (makes it harder to initiate new friendships).

fuzzygeek wrote:I communicate with other people far more via text than speech (speech too slow) normally so this doesn't bother me much, to be fair.

This might be the case today, but in 10years? who knows.
If you cant reverse the choice, its not easy if you think about it in the long run.
Im not trying to invalidate your choice or opinion, but i wanna emphasize that a decition like this will have a lot pros/cons than what you can think of in 10min.
And i just really hope i never have to stand infront of the choice, or doing the choice for someone else.
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Re: Random Pondering

Postby Amirya » Fri Jan 21, 2011 1:38 pm

I cannot answer this.

I'd need to know why I'm suddenly blind or suddenly deaf.

If I were afflicted with either of these, I'd want to sit down with a doctor and discuss the possibilities of restoring either lost sense, and how much could possibly be restored.

I'd want to research any possible workarounds to make my quality of life easier/same as before.

Either way, I don't think I'd be playing WoW anymore (I play with game sounds on because I rely on game sounds to tell me what might be occurring offscreen/soon).

Do I get a pass if I say I'm almost blind without my corrective lenses? My glasses are awful thick, my vision is just terrible.
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Re: Random Pondering

Postby Skye1013 » Fri Jan 21, 2011 10:47 pm

Amirya wrote:I cannot answer this.

I'd need to know why I'm suddenly blind or suddenly deaf.

I'm not sure why the cause would matter if the endstate is one or the other, regardless of medical care. Let's say you contracted some disease, and the doctor has told you they can only save one of your senses, vision or hearing.

And being "legally blind" isn't quite what I'm asking about. As some people are "legally blind" but have some vision (perhaps they have spots in their vision, or can still see shadows.) I'm referring to full-on blindness (Like say, in a completely sealed room without even ambient light.)

fuzzygeek wrote:Ever meet a blind chef? What about a woodworker?


What would prevent a blind person from learning how to be a chef or woodworker? Knowing how long to cook a piece of meat (for example) might be done via smell as opposed to looking at how pink it is. Woodworking might require more safeguards to prevent losing a finger, but I don't see it as being impossible. And I've honestly never met a blind person, so realistically I could mention any job and truthfully say I've never met a blind person that does it.

fuzzygeek wrote:Personally I'd rather be deaf than blind. Too much of what I do and enjoy depends on vision -- blind client for WoW? Yeah, doubtful.


Again, what would prevent them from doing so? I'm sure a few reasons that they haven't considered trying something like this is 1) the mindset most people have about blind people in that they are severely handicapped and can't do things a "normal" person can, 2) the number of blind people that might also be considered gamers is probably a fairly small % of the population. Though with the way technology is going, eventually we won't have a need for monitors as they'll just implant the images in our brain... at which point the need for sight for things like that will be far less necessary (yes, I realize I'm making assumptions about the progress of technology, but who's to say it won't happen.... eventually?)
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Re: Random Pondering

Postby Hokahey » Sat Jan 22, 2011 4:32 am

Skye1013 wrote:
Hokahey wrote:Vampire: the Masquerade even had a Vampire Clan (they were all super-assassins) whose signature ability was a Discipline called Quietus, which did pretty much what you think it does.


Of course Obfuscate being another clan Discipline for the Assmites (yes, I know I spelt it incorrectly, I used to play a MuD based on V:tM, which eventually led to this term of "endearment"), which covered the "invisible" part, but yeah, never underestimate the power of sneakiness.


I was merely demonstrating that inaudibility can be a superpower along with invisibility, but yes, the Assamites also had Obfuscate as a Discipline.

"Assmites" made me laugh. Truly, one of those where the instant someone said they were playing one, you knew the campaign had pretty much left the rails, and listen as their explanation for how their character came to be in the campaign got more ludicrous.
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Re: Random Pondering

Postby Hokahey » Sat Jan 22, 2011 4:48 am

Skye1013 wrote:
fuzzygeek wrote:Personally I'd rather be deaf than blind. Too much of what I do and enjoy depends on vision -- blind client for WoW? Yeah, doubtful.


Again, what would prevent them from doing so? I'm sure a few reasons that they haven't considered trying something like this is 1) the mindset most people have about blind people in that they are severely handicapped and can't do things a "normal" person can, 2) the number of blind people that might also be considered gamers is probably a fairly small % of the population. Though with the way technology is going, eventually we won't have a need for monitors as they'll just implant the images in our brain... at which point the need for sight for things like that will be far less necessary (yes, I realize I'm making assumptions about the progress of technology, but who's to say it won't happen.... eventually?)


More to the point, like most people who lose a sense, you often just learn to get by without it. Not to say it isn't difficult, because it really is, but you'd find different things to do to occupy your time if you're blind, or deaf. Video games, for the time being, are pretty strictly a visual form of entertainment. On the other hand, some time ago they featured a young man on a national news program (60 Minutes?) who actually demonstrated use of echo-location to navigate obstacles while riding a bicycle (or was it a skateboard? Maybe both?). It was very impressive. He could identify the shape and type of objects he encountered by listening to the echos of clicking noises he made with his mouth. Who knows what would become possible with the advancements of technology and our understanding of the human mind?

I honestly believe I would miss hearing things more than seeing things more.
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Re: Random Pondering

Postby Treck » Sat Jan 22, 2011 6:17 am

Hokahey wrote:On the other hand, some time ago they featured a young man on a national news program (60 Minutes?) who actually demonstrated use of echo-location to navigate obstacles while riding a bicycle (or was it a skateboard? Maybe both?). It was very impressive. He could identify the shape and type of objects he encountered by listening to the echos of clicking noises he made with his mouth. Who knows what would become possible with the advancements of technology and our understanding of the human mind?

I honestly believe I would miss hearing things more than seeing things more.

There are a few people in the world that have been known for beeing able to use their echo to "see" their surroundings, but im pretty sure ALL of them were blind from birth, as its a feature that takes ages to learn.
Not to mention that a grown up person wouldnt be able to adapt to that.
There has been cases where they have given a blind man vision through technology, think it was only very rough shades but thats a big differance from beeing blind, hearing i dont know if anyone has restored or been able to simulate tho.
Technology can do a lot to restore senses, esp a bit in the future, but will it be available to every blind/deaf person there is?

I have a friend who has about 0.6% of the normal vision a "normal" person has (this basicly means hes got 2 spots, one in each eye, big as a bottlecap at about 5meters range), add to that pretty extencive nearsightedness, and you have his vision.
Even with this "close to blindness" he can still do a LOT more than a blind man could.
He is using a computer in every day life, he plays video games (not wow, but not cuz he wouldnt be able to if he wanted), he plays ball and can run/bike without beeing a hazard to everyone around him.
This just goes to show that beeing "almost" blind, is far from actually beeing blind.
I think its a lot cuz of him that makes me think that beeing blind isnt as bad as beeing deaf.
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Re: Random Pondering

Postby Dorvan » Sat Jan 22, 2011 3:16 pm

I'd rather be blind by far. Sound is much more fundamental to in-person interpersonal communication than sight. Blind, I can participate in a dinner party and hang out with friends. Deaf...sure those things are still possible, but a huge communication barrier is erected. Yes, there is sign language, but most people you encounter won't know it. Lip reading is there as well, but sources I've seen say that at best people can only pick up 30-40% of the content when lip-reading.

Certainly there are a lot of things you lose by being blind, lots of (especially physical) activities that become much more difficult when not impossible. Nevertheless, I value ease of communication above those items as the number one reason I'd take blindness over deafness, with music coming in at second.

If I were afflicted with either of these, I'd want to sit down with a doctor and discuss the possibilities of restoring either lost sense, and how much could possibly be restored.


I'm pretty sure that the point of the question is that the loss is complete and permanent. Otherwise it becomes a question of "which medical field is more advanced?" rather than a question about a person's sensory values...considerably less interesting.
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Re: Random Pondering

Postby Nakama » Sat Jan 22, 2011 5:01 pm

Deaf, easily.

Too much of our world, and the beauty in it, is experienced or can be at least partially experienced with vision. There are a great many things that either don't have a significant sound or don't require sound to experience.

Yeah, interpersonal communication would be tougher, but blindness would be far more disabling to me than deafness.

To boot, at least with music, you can experience the vibrations it generates through touching speakers if necessary.

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