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[10] Heroic Chimaeron

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[10] Heroic Chimaeron

Postby Ulrik » Tue Jan 18, 2011 5:34 am

Main differences:
The feud cast is actually canceled by Nefarion who is standing on the cage and commands Chimaeron to stop feuding thus continuing his normal moves. I'm going to continue to call this phase "Feud Phase" for simplicity though.
A raid shadow aura for ~2k a tick from 20% to 0.
At 20% the bosses attacks are all Double Attacks.

Disclamer: IMO This isn't the best strat but it's the one we used with the tanks we had. Yes this did eventually result in a kill.

Tips: Feud NEVER follows the First massacre, but will on either the second or third.
Each Feud phase is roughly 30 sec. Cycles of Feud and normal phases are Randomly either 60 or 90 sec total.
Break debuff lasts 1 min and cannot be removed except by death.

Tanks: Prot Pally (me), Bear
Heals: Shaman, Pally, Holy Priest
Dps: Unholy DK, Enhance, SPriest, Boomkin, Hunter (survival?)

The collapse point for the group for feud is on a healer in melee range of the boss. The tanks can stand anywhere around the boss away from this spot. The tanks can stack if they wish but don't have to. However, the feud tank stays on his spot out of the group so as to not take slime damage while the primary (Break stack) tank stacks with the group during feud. For us the Bear acts as primary tank getting his 4 Break stacks and tanking for all non Feud sections. I taunt and eat all Double Attacks. When Feud starts casting I will have the boss and use CDs through the feud phase. After the end of feud massacre the primary tank resumes tanking and the whole cycle continues. One important thing to note here is that the feud/double attack tank will receive 2 Break stacks during feud making the next sequence of double attacks rather pointy.

Since the feud/nonfeud cycle timer is randomly 60 or 90 seconds you can come across some problems using this method. If it's 60 sec then the feud/double tank will go into the next feud with his 2 break stacks with 30 sec left (ouch) and if he survives, exit the phase with 4. Our contingency for this (after surviving the feud and finishing with 4 stacks) was to have me Battle rezzed after taunting, turning and dying on the next double attack. NOT the next normal attack or else the primary tank will be faced with that incoming double while I'm down. In addition to that nonsense your 3 min alternating CDs will get all desynced and leave you with only outside CDs that tend not to offer much. Frankly if you get multiple and or back to back 60 cycles, GG try next attempt.

However, if it's 90 sec cycles then I never had more then 2 Breaks. I had no problem doing AD on one feud then GoAK on the second and have AD ready for the next etc. DP on all of them as well because it will always be up for both 60 and 90 sec cycles. I tended to chain rather then stack any effects. Also if you're going to get gibbed it's going to be right after massacre so AD/GoAK first, then DP.

With luck our kill of course had all 90 sec cycles and my CDs each feud went like so: 1-AD/DP 2-GoAK/DP 3-AD/DP 4-Guardian Spirit/DP
This leaves GoAK, on use mastery trinket, and agi pot for ~3% dodge up for P2 "live as long as you can" time.

Since all P2 attacks are double attacks and the 2k dot will kill a player who manages to survive any double attacks with 1hp, the buff of the robot in P2 is meaningless. In fact we found it simplest to actually push into P2 during the start of feud because massacre is far away, slime bolts don't come for about the first 10 or 15 sec and feud is when we top off the group anyhow. We also ran into some transitions outside of feud when people are spread and Chimaeron would phase but throw out his last slime bolts anyway. This effectively kills multiple people right off because of the addition of Nef's shadow aura ticks and near zero healing. He would also sometimes decide to finish the massacre cast instead of stopping on transition as well.

A comment on our strat and fight:
Obviously the major flaw is a real dependance on getting those 90 sec cycles as much as possible. On top of hoping you always block when you really need during feud and double attack and the RNG of survival in P2. Savage Defence is a poor substitute for scaling block however, and the Bear just could not handle the feud tanking at all. IMO It's much more of a class check then gear or healer check.

An alternate strategy involves using a ret pally or dps DK serve as the Primay tank. Anyone who can taunt can serve the role as Primary tank for P1. This would let you use your real tanks to alternate cycles of double attacks and feuds (in that order), keeping Break stacks on each low. If you were to try this alternate strat of DPS-primary tank and 2 tank specced off tanks then use pallys or warriors who should also do well.

Keeping the 'anyone who can taunt can tank' idea in mind, have healers who are able taunt do so near P2. They don't even have to tank one hit if you don't want. They just need to rise above dps on threat table to buy more time. Depending on dps and phase timing you could also have that healer tank long enough to have the break stacks to drop off the original Primary tank giving him more P2 survival value.

More tips/bloopers:
Bring all the Evasion, Deterrence, Dispersion etc. you can get.
Turn pet Growls ON. Can buy one more meat shield each.
Don't use Unholy frenzy ever. It can kill you.
Make sure locks and healers coordinate life taps. Best during feud phase.
Would recommend having mages who are fire Not spec Cauterize. Game screws it up and procs it on massacre etc.
Don't bother running around in P2 to buy time. With a 5 sec swing he will catch up long before he tries to attack. Any movement is a waste of dps. Kiting out the room is silly and won't work either. IDK if you'll get ported back but you'll range everyone else anyway.
WoG instantly after massacre is awesome. Getting an Eternal Glory proc even more so. I had for a night of attempts glyphed and tanked with Insight, but after a 200k wipe I decided to go back to Truth. In retrospect that extra damage is only meaningful after transition so w/e. Pushing P2 and enrage weren't the problem.
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Re: [10] Heroic Chimaeron

Postby VikrumthePally » Tue Jan 18, 2011 9:52 am

This is some great info. I really appreciate you taking the time to share your experiences. I am curious though. Do you (or anyone) know if dying in the 20% or less phase and being resurrected works? Like would we get the normal amount of life back if we were to be SS before that phase hit, die, accept SS?
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Re: [10] Heroic Chimaeron

Postby 2Cute2BeStr8 » Thu Jan 20, 2011 1:51 am

Awesome suggestions. When they two tanked it they had to just get some crazy RNG. I liked having a ret pali/dk do it so much just because there is no loss in dps at all far superior.

We had it to 4 percent a couple times tonight and think that with those suggestions we'll have it.

Just a few suggestions from my point of view. I wouldn't move to the other side when you are feud tanking just because the chances of you dieing if you manage your CD's correctly is slim to none, and it gives one more person to soak. He also only does one double strike. The mistake that I had made tonight was using my CD's wrong really jacked us up in last phase. I should have been using AD, plus dodge trinket for first double strike and then using divine protection and mastery trinket when caustics started. Then the second time you are feud tank use your Guardian of Ancient kings. If there is a third time ask for a pain suppression. Also there will usually be a barrier/what not up.

Probably only want your resto druid taunting if his Brez is up, but that is an awesome suggestion and the pet thing is awesome as well because a Soul Shattered lock/ invis mage FD hunter will be above the pets.

One of the biggest problems I had as a tank tonight was using my word of glory effectively and I would let the break tank die during the feud part. Wether the person is a dps/tank they would still die because of 4 stacks of break if you dont taunt correctly. If you use your Hand of Reckoning during a massacre when double strike is up ( I know avoid it) then you can't use your righteous defense in time because he isn't targeting anyone during feud. I'm going to have me and the ret pali ( or another pali if we used a dk to tank) glyph hand of salvation and just alternate between feuds. Completely eliminates any risk of that person dieing, and then that person can also DPS without risk of pulling aggro.
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Re: [10] Heroic Chimaeron

Postby 2Cute2BeStr8 » Thu Jan 20, 2011 6:16 am

Since I don't sleep and think of stuff about boss fights just had a couple of other quick questions.

1. Abilities such as Ardent Defender/ Guardian Spirit that say otherwise kill you but heal you for 15/50 percent of your life respectively will those not heal you in that phase since all healing is reduced by 99 percent?

2. Also this could be me being insane but I know that in normal mode if you push him to 20 percent he will just stop his feud and go into his enrage. However, in heroic mode I noticed the Mortality debuff on him ( assuming same thing happened on normal just didn't realize it) well the debuff on him "Chimaeron goes into a rage, rendering him immune to Taunt effects but increasing the damage he takes by 10%." I'm almost 100 percent positive however that the debuff mortality didn't go on us until after the Bile-Otron came back online?

3. In regards to the above question, does that mean in heroic mode that I know 100 percent for sure that at 20 percent he will not massacre, but if he is feuding will he still do his caustic slime? and then at the same time the massacre would have ended the bile-otron come back on and we get the mortality debuff? Wow head definitly list it as two different spell ID's?

4. If above is the case? Wouldn't it be better to get him to say 22-23 percent stop all DoT's wait for a massacre ( and the thing to get knocked offline) he starts feud you lust and nuke? Since idealy that would give you 15 seconds of lust time with him taking 10 percent more damage? I mean sure you'd still have to heal through caustic slimes but I'm almost certain that he doesn't put the mortality debuff on you until that bilotron comes back online? Not 100 percent sure though. All I know is that I definitly have seem him with that mortality debuff before we had it on us.
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Re: [10] Heroic Chimaeron

Postby Chicken » Thu Jan 20, 2011 6:51 am

2Cute2BeStr8 wrote:Since I don't sleep and think of stuff about boss fights just had a couple of other quick questions.

1. Abilities such as Ardent Defender/ Guardian Spirit that say otherwise kill you but heal you for 15/50 percent of your life respectively will those not heal you in that phase since all healing is reduced by 99 percent?
Ardent Defender definitely still heals you fully. Quoting from one of our combat logs:

Code: Select all
[21:54:32.119] Chimaeron casts Mortality
[21:54:32.172] Paladin afflicted by Mortality from Chimaeron
[21:54:45.067] Paladin gains Ardent Defender from Paladin
[21:54:45.067] Paladin casts Ardent Defender
[21:54:47.384] Paladin Ardent Defender Paladin +24383
[21:54:47.757] Paladin's Ardent Defender fades from Paladin
That makes Ardent Defender very valuable for fairly obvious reasons. I'd expect the same to apply to other similar abilities, but I don't have combat log bits handy for any of those.
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Re: [10] Heroic Chimaeron

Postby 2Cute2BeStr8 » Thu Jan 20, 2011 7:11 am

Ty for that answer, helps a lot. Now if only I can figure out a way to figure out when it is going to be knocked offline! And if /when the two debuffs apply separately. I couldn't sleep so have been up for like many extra hours looking this stuff up.

2 questions I answered here.

Both the debuffs do go off at the same time, and he will not cast caustic slime if you get him to 21.5 % So really it just comes down to good timing end of story and I can find no rime or reason as to any type of order as to when it is going to get knocked offline or not. It would be nice

I guess my only problem is that it seems easy to do that transition and keep every single person 100 percent topped off if you go into it from a feud, but seems much more difficult to do it.
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Re: [10] Heroic Chimaeron

Postby Jonlo » Fri Jan 21, 2011 7:10 am

What I learned from being the feud tank last night:

You're probably going to die. Often.

Cardboard Assassins are awesome for this fight.
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Re: [10] Heroic Chimaeron

Postby Treck » Sat Jan 22, 2011 11:41 am

Jonlo wrote:What I learned from being the feud tank last night:

You're probably going to die. Often.

Cardboard Assassins are awesome for this fight.

Ever heard of CDs?
If you have, then you never die.
If you still do, then your healers are crap.

There is nothing to heal the first 15sec of Feud, topping the tank is not a hard task.
Dubble attack doesnt last past a massacre anymore, making the Feud a joke now.
And you WILL have to use CDs for the dubbleattack that comes later.
Only noticed one dubbleattack during feud nowadays.
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Re: [10] Heroic Chimaeron

Postby Jonlo » Sat Jan 22, 2011 2:17 pm

Treck wrote:
Jonlo wrote:What I learned from being the feud tank last night:

You're probably going to die. Often.

Cardboard Assassins are awesome for this fight.

Ever heard of CDs?
If you have, then you never die.
If you still do, then your healers are crap.

There is nothing to heal the first 15sec of Feud, topping the tank is not a hard task.
Dubble attack doesnt last past a massacre anymore, making the Feud a joke now.
And you WILL have to use CDs for the dubbleattack that comes later.
Only noticed one dubbleattack during feud nowadays.


So you're saying you never died once learning this fight?
Double Attack.
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Re: [10] Heroic Chimaeron

Postby Treck » Sat Jan 22, 2011 3:13 pm

Jonlo wrote:So you're saying you never died once learning this fight?
Double Attack.

With dubbleattack right after massacre with incoming Feud, yes.
By dubbleattack during Feud with CD up, never.
After healers have started dying off, yes.
When we were doing the tankswaps wrong, yes.
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Re: [10] Heroic Chimaeron

Postby 2Cute2BeStr8 » Sun Jan 23, 2011 4:31 am

^

Tis true, the only time you should ever need a CD is for the double attack during feud and that is it. If you die any other time your healer is doing something wrong. They should be pre casting a heal on you as massacre cast because you do take a normal attack or so that hits decently hard, but you have to use your CD's for double strike so that is on your healers.

Even learing the fight the only tanking error you can make is taunting incorrectly. Only CD error is not having AD up during last phase. So first time you are feud take Dodge trinket use/ AD ( and use Divine Protection ( glyphed every caustic slime part).

Second time, Gaurdian.

Third time ( Pain supp if there is even a third time you are tanking him during feud)
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Re: [10] Heroic Chimaeron

Postby Jonlo » Sun Jan 23, 2011 8:03 am

Treck wrote:
Jonlo wrote:So you're saying you never died once learning this fight?
Double Attack.

With dubbleattack right after massacre with incoming Feud, yes.
By dubbleattack during Feud with CD up, never.
After healers have started dying off, yes.
When we were doing the tankswaps wrong, yes.


So how do you handle the tank swaps, cause I have 4 stacks of break on some Double Attacks, and I just get reamed. I got killed before Guardian Spirit procced.

Also, grats on Sinestra.
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Re: [10] Heroic Chimaeron

Postby Treck » Sun Jan 23, 2011 8:15 am

You should never be taking a dubbleattack while having Break on you, with 2 exceptions beeing the very first (we dont bother since it will hurt threatgen) and right after a Feud, you will most likely need to take one while having 2x Break, since the other tank might still have 4stacks for a few more sec.
Break is applied right as he gains the dubbleattack buff, then your other tank has a few sec to taunt the boss so that he soaks dubbleattack before you taunt back.
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Re: [10] Heroic Chimaeron

Postby Jonlo » Sun Jan 23, 2011 8:36 am

Ah! So we were doing it wrong.

It's Massacre>Feud tank taunts>normal swing>Main tank taunts back>DA buff+Break>Feud Tank taunts>Double Attack>normal swing>Main tank taunts back>DA+Break>Massacre.

Does that sound a bit closer to correct?
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Re: [10] Heroic Chimaeron

Postby Crilljina » Sun Jan 23, 2011 8:38 am

Now if you, like us, get sick and tired of the absolutely massive RNG in this fight on 10 man, 3 tanks, 3 healers and a plate dpser MTing is the way to go. We tried all kinds of tactics before settling on this, but stuff like getting Feud on the 2nd Massacre, and then again on every single Massacre 3-4 times in a row after that, we realized to minimize the RNG we needed as many CDs as we could get. I was tanking as a ret paladin, I believe this is the best option, since I can just turn RF on and have 0 threat issues. I also don't lose too much dps, since being parried is slightly mitigated by not getting the Caustic Slime miss debuff other than during Feud. Then we had a prot pala, a prot warrior and a feral tank alternating Double Attack taunting/Feud tanking, with the Feral in kitty form whenever he wasn't tanking anything. All of the Feud Double Attacks were of course CDd, and whenever the Feud tank got a stack of Break, he used a smaller CD as well (Barkskin, DP etc.).

This was the way I saw (with our setup, we're probably quite lucky to be able to field 3 geared tanks, and a ret pala for MTing) to get the least amount of RNG. Having 3 tanks on top of the threat list in p2 is also VERY beneficial to the RNG, since every second counts. Do try to get mages high up as well, since Mirror Images gives you 15 seconds extra, which is quite huge in that phase.
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