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Bracers - am i crazy?

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Bracers - am i crazy?

Postby Kyoshkin » Thu Jan 13, 2011 8:22 pm

I came across something very strange.

I needed to replace my green bracers a while ago, and these dropped for me: http://www.wowhead.com/item=57855
I reforged hit --> dodge, and put in a 60 sta gem, and a 40 mastery into the BS socket (i'm a BS).

I then worked on my Ramkahan rep, and just picked up: http://www.wowhead.com/item=62449

However, even reforging the expertise to mastery and putting in a 40 mastery gem, i end up with about:

+130armor
+50hp
+7% dodge
even parry (technically +0.01 on my gear)
-1.2% block.

Please note i'm comparing against the 333 version of the bracers - I don't have the 346.

Should I stick w/ the blue?
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Re: Bracers - am i crazy?

Postby inthedrops » Thu Jan 13, 2011 8:33 pm

I think it's about 1% dodge (not sure where you got 7%, maybe a typo?) but what amount it does give is extremely significant. It's definitely an upgrade. The expertise, even after reforging away from, is also very useful. Armor isn't much but it's very hard to come by these days, so it's also significant.
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Re: Bracers - am i crazy?

Postby Kyoshkin » Thu Jan 13, 2011 8:38 pm

Yeah - that was supposed to read 0.7% dodge.

It looked (at least on my char) that I was losing more mastery than I was gaining in dodge, thereby reducing my total avoidance (dodge+parry+block).
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Re: Bracers - am i crazy?

Postby inthedrops » Thu Jan 13, 2011 8:57 pm

Kyoshkin wrote:Yeah - that was supposed to read 0.7% dodge.

It looked (at least on my char) that I was losing more mastery than I was gaining in dodge, thereby reducing my total avoidance (dodge+parry+block).


Look at it this way...

You're gaining mitigation (via health and armor), avoidance, and threat.
You're losing only mitigation (via less block rating).

The value of hit right now is very very low.

Note: Block rating is not avoidance.
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Re: Bracers - am i crazy?

Postby econ21 » Fri Jan 14, 2011 2:34 am

Kyoshkin wrote:Yeah - that was supposed to read 0.7% dodge.

It looked (at least on my char) that I was losing more mastery than I was gaining in dodge, thereby reducing my total avoidance (dodge+parry+block).


What you are reducing could be called your "combat table coverage" (CTC)- i.e. the chance of an unblocked hit. I tend to look at expected damage reduction (DR), where block is only 40% as good as dodge and parry. You could argue that block is better than it appears for DR, because CTC smoothes damage and thus reduces the chance of death due to damage spikes. Even so, I would not regard 1% block as being as good as 1% avoidance.
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Re: Bracers - am i crazy?

Postby Kelaan » Fri Jan 14, 2011 12:53 pm

econ21 wrote:I would not regard 1% block as being as good as 1% avoidance.


Would you consider 1.2% block (more for the 346 one) as comparable to .7% dodge? That's almost double the combat table coverage.

346 Alpha bracers
12 str
149 mastery
92 hit -> (36 dodge, 55 hit)

Sandguard bracers
4 stam
56 armor
111 expertise -> (44 mastery, 66 expertise)
190 dodge

4 stamina is a wash IMO, so your net comparison is roughly:
105 mastery + 55 hit
vs
154 dodge rating + 66 expertise

In that light, it looks like the Sandguard is more itemization; I don't know what those convert to in terms of combat table coverage off the top of my head.


346 vs 359: http://www.wowhead.com/compare?items=57870.0.0.0.52231;62449



(Alpha Bracers + Puissant gem) vs (Sandguard Bracers):
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Re: Bracers - am i crazy?

Postby Digren » Fri Jan 14, 2011 1:15 pm

Kelaan wrote:
econ21 wrote:I would not regard 1% block as being as good as 1% avoidance.


Would you consider 1.2% block (more for the 346 one) as comparable to .7% dodge? That's almost double the combat table coverage.

If you've already converted everything from ratings into percentages, then that's very easy to calculate.

Assume you aren't block capped by at least 1.2%. This means out of every 100 physical blockable damage heading towards you, at minimum 1.2 gets through as full hits.

If you increase your pure avoidance by 0.7%, then the 1.2 becomes 0.5. You now take 0.7% less damage for every 100 heading your way. (That's exactly what you'd expect.)

If you instead increase your block chance by 1.2%, then the 1.2 becomes 0.72. It's all blocked but you still take 60% of it. You now take 0.48% less damage for every 100 heading your way.

Clearly, then, unless you value smoother damage intake over less damage intake, 0.7% dodge is better than 1.2% block.

Keep in mind that these percentages are all based on total damage heading your way, including the parts that you already would avoid or block due to your existing gear. To determine your actual % damage reduction by this change, we would need to know your existing avoidance and block percentages before applying the upgrades.

It's much harder to calculate this in terms of ratings, because you have to know your existing percentages and how they affect diminishing returns.
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