Mana Issues?

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Re: Mana Issues?

Postby Nikachelle » Tue Jan 11, 2011 1:30 pm

Chunes wrote:Nika, I think you should give GrC a shot.

I only drop consecrate as a last resort when all my other stuff is on cooldown and I have a gap in the rotation, ONLY if I have mana. Holy wrath for AoE is actually pretty shitty over 5 targets due to the meteor effect. So strangely, I only use it for 3 or less targets usually unless I have nothing else to cast. This is where grand crusader comes in though. It procs pretty frequently and while a lot of them go to waste since you either have a CS->ShoR to do or you have to prioritize judgement.

Still, I can't count the times where I would have had to use a shitty HW or consecrate and AS popped instead.

The other side to this argument is related to your threat. If your threat is fine in heroics, then stop using HotR so much since it's kind of a mana hog and switch to tab CS's, judge on cooldown and DP if you need it.

If your threat is not OK in heroics, either discipline your DPS better to assist you rather than wantonly AoE'ing everything, use salvs, request tricks/MD's etc.

Or is it a matter of gear? I admit, I haven't checked your armory and while I stayed more or less within the gear curve of my most aggressive DPS, it may be hard to manage uber geared DPS threat when your tank gear is only so so.

We're all geared about the same. Threat is an issue at times, but to be honest, they all unload pretty early (Invis is usually already casting before I've even run in or even *thought* about throwing my shield at the next pack.) and are notoriously bad with their tab targeting. (Like REALLY bad.) But tbh, we're all pretty lazy in heroics. I'm lazy about moving out of bad shit and definitely don't go out of my way to make sure everything is glued to me all the time. And they're lazy about targeting and whatnot. I was just more concerned about mana.

I definitely don't tab CS though. Should probably do that. I normally run with two mages and a lock. No tricks or MD to be had.
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Re: Mana Issues?

Postby Amirya » Tue Jan 11, 2011 1:36 pm

Nikachelle wrote:I normally run with two mages and a lock. No tricks or MD to be had.

I'll trade ya. I had 3 dks in heroic BRC last night.

Corla, as you can imagine, was a goddamn bitch. No matter how I positioned her, someone wasn't within melee range. (We finally solved it by healer remaining in left, I took center, and one dps took right, he kept his dots and ghoul on her, and when he had to drop his stacks, he'd run out to dps her, then run back in. So painful.....)

We didn't even try Beauty.
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Re: Mana Issues?

Postby d503 » Tue Jan 11, 2011 2:03 pm

Here's what I do (though I've been derided for being an anti-consecrationist ;P).

1. I use Glyph of HotR
2. I use Grand Crusader - those extra silences/interrupts are more valuable on trash packs than you'd think.
3. I use Holy Wrath as a filler when AS hasn't proc'd.
4. With 30-50% vengeance (using VengeanceBar to track) and Inquisition up, my Avenger Shields hit for 13k non-crit, 25k crit (approximate).
5. I never use consecrate unless it is ALOT of little mobs (devotees before last boss in stonecore).
6. For disparate packs like the 6 pull in Vortex Pinnacle, I'll AS the first couple of mobs, wait (or toss down consecrate) and make sure to not HotR until everything is in range to be hit.

That being said, I still go out of mana sometimes in heroics...most of the time, it's on caster packs when I don't have enough procs of Sanctuary.

Hope this helps.

Also, try GrC! It's very fun and often procs fast enough to use the next GCD!

EDIT: Earlier Aescetic Crusader was mentioned - frankly, I find that in the average heroic instance I only use Crusader Strike on bosses (and there are few bosses where I can't b/c of add mechanics). Granted I could micro-manage and switch to CS instead of HotR more often, but from a threat perspective, it doesn't feel like I can't manage threat with HotR on single targets.

Basically, if it's trash, or a boss that has an Add Mechanic, I just leave HotR on. If it's single-target trash or a boss w/o above mechanics, I use CS.
Last edited by d503 on Tue Jan 11, 2011 2:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Mana Issues?

Postby d503 » Tue Jan 11, 2011 2:06 pm

Chunes wrote:
Nikachelle wrote:I definitely don't tab CS though. Should probably do that. I normally run with two mages and a lock. No tricks or MD to be had.


I've never felt the need to Tab-CS. What is the advantage of this above HotR (beyond applying a stack or two of Censure). I guess I've never felt that our AoE threat was ever so difficult that I needed to do so.
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Re: Mana Issues?

Postby Amshel » Tue Jan 11, 2011 2:08 pm

A couple swings with Seal of Insight and it's all gravy.
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Re: Mana Issues?

Postby Flex » Tue Jan 11, 2011 2:10 pm

I would love to remove some damage from HotR to have some sort of ability to spread Seal of Truth like warriors can Rend.
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Re: Mana Issues?

Postby Aubade » Tue Jan 11, 2011 2:25 pm

O.o Is this an EU thing? I don't drink, have 0 points in hollow ground, use consecrate on CD and never have Mana problems >.< Maybe I'm doing something wrong, then again I don't CC so maybe the extra mobs are enough to push my mana over the top?

Ooh, maybe it's from seal of insight? I use that a lot, and I don't know the exact #'s but isn't it a pretty large mana gain?
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Re: Mana Issues?

Postby d503 » Tue Jan 11, 2011 2:27 pm

Aubade wrote:O.o Is this an EU thing? I don't drink, have 0 points in hollow ground, use consecrate on CD and never have Mana problems >.< Maybe I'm doing something wrong, then again I don't CC so maybe the extra mobs are enough to push my mana over the top?

Ooh, maybe it's from seal of insight? I use that a lot, and I don't know the exact #'s but isn't it a pretty large mana gain?


Probably a combo of SoI and AoE tanking, in your case.
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Re: Mana Issues?

Postby Nikachelle » Tue Jan 11, 2011 2:31 pm

Aubade wrote:O.o Is this an EU thing? I don't drink, have 0 points in hollow ground, use consecrate on CD and never have Mana problems >.< Maybe I'm doing something wrong, then again I don't CC so maybe the extra mobs are enough to push my mana over the top?

Ooh, maybe it's from seal of insight? I use that a lot, and I don't know the exact #'s but isn't it a pretty large mana gain?

"An EU thing"? Wat.
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Re: Mana Issues?

Postby Aubade » Tue Jan 11, 2011 2:38 pm

Nikachelle wrote:"An EU thing"? Wat.


Stupid joke =]

EU: Nikachelle [85]

I also haven't slept yet, so i think it's funny =]
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Re: Mana Issues?

Postby inthedrops » Tue Jan 11, 2011 2:51 pm

The benefit to tab CS targeting is simple, it forces you to evaluate the threat situation for each mob. If all mobs are well within the needed threat values, then you do not need to press a single mana using button.

To save mana, stop using abilities when you don't need to use them.

That's pretty much the best general advice I can think of.

Note that some people will have a harder/easier time than others simply due to the dungeon, your gear, and the people you run with. "I never have mana issues" does not translate across the board.
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Re: Mana Issues?

Postby d503 » Tue Jan 11, 2011 3:01 pm

inthedrops wrote:The benefit to tab CS targeting is simple, it forces you to evaluate the threat situation for each mob. If all mobs are well within the needed threat values, then you do not need to press a single mana using button.

To save mana, stop using abilities when you don't need to use them.

That's pretty much the best general advice I can think of.

Note that some people will have a harder/easier time than others simply due to the dungeon, your gear, and the people you run with. "I never have mana issues" does not translate across the board.


Yeah, I generally reach that point where I know I don't need to threat anything anymore, but I find it kind of unfun...but it's a great suggestion if you're low on mana (and I have used it for that purpose...but usually just in the guise of a quick tab-target through all the targets and making sure that my threat to their health ratio was appropriate for DPS not to pull).
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Re: Mana Issues?

Postby Sabindeus » Tue Jan 11, 2011 3:40 pm

Aubade wrote:O.o Is this an EU thing? I don't drink, have 0 points in hollow ground, use consecrate on CD and never have Mana problems >.< Maybe I'm doing something wrong, then again I don't CC so maybe the extra mobs are enough to push my mana over the top?

Ooh, maybe it's from seal of insight? I use that a lot, and I don't know the exact #'s but isn't it a pretty large mana gain?


Yeah if you use SoI you pretty much should never run OOM no matter what you do.
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Re: Mana Issues?

Postby Chunes » Tue Jan 11, 2011 10:18 pm

d503 wrote:
Chunes wrote:
Nikachelle wrote:I definitely don't tab CS though. Should probably do that. I normally run with two mages and a lock. No tricks or MD to be had.


I've never felt the need to Tab-CS. What is the advantage of this above HotR (beyond applying a stack or two of Censure). I guess I've never felt that our AoE threat was ever so difficult that I needed to do so.


It's a matter of saving mana. That's all.
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Re: Mana Issues?

Postby Kelaan » Wed Jan 12, 2011 10:06 am

Sabindeus wrote:I manage to go OOM even without using Consec... HotR and Holy Wrath are pretty expensive

I run everything with seal of insight. Mana intake is massive. I can spend 80% of my mana on the pull, practically, and still be comfortable for the rest of the fight. I rarely need to use Cons, but even when I do it works out OK -- I prefer using GC procs, generally, but also I don't often deal with large herds ofadds that have much health.
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