Valiona and Theralion [10]

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Valiona and Theralion [10]

Postby Astronomic » Thu Jan 06, 2011 6:56 am

We got to these 2 dragons tuesday. After about an hour and a half on them we were able to get the valiona phase down pretty well but our main problem was with theralion. Melee would have it pretty easy with just staying on the back of the boss pretty much, but the range were having issues. Sometimes it seemed that even if someone in range got that explosion debuff and didnt react that exact milisecond, people would die. Or if that debuff happened at the exact same time as a shadow void thing, even with the ranged person getting away it was just too much damage. One time it was going almost perfectly and then the debuff hit our resto druid just after using wildgrowth, effectivly killing the ranged group instantly. Is there something we are missing or is there just alot of luck involved here?
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Re: Valiona and Theralion [10]

Postby Chicken » Thu Jan 06, 2011 7:45 am

We found it worked a lot better with having ranged spread around instead of having a ranged group, the key is to be close enough to run to melee if as ranged you get a meteor targeted at you. It'll heavily reduce the amount of damage ranged take, especially when a DoT or HoT based class gets Engulfing Magic on them.
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Re: Valiona and Theralion [10]

Postby Astronomic » Thu Jan 06, 2011 8:20 am

Thanks, that sounds like a logical strategy; I will ceratinly bring that up tonight.
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Re: Valiona and Theralion [10]

Postby Belloc » Thu Jan 06, 2011 10:24 am

We have our entire raid stacked in melee for the entirety of the Theralion phase. This makes it so that meteor damage is pathetic. Whenever someone gets Engulfing Magic they simply run out. The only time anyone dies is if the engulfing magic target doesn't realize that they have it. Having everyone topped off should prevent Engulfing Magic deaths.

We've had our resto druid and myself (affliction warlock with dots on both dragons) get targeted and no one dies... I'm thinking that you've either got people not topped off or the engulfing magic target is taking far too long to get away.

The key to Engulfing Magic is simply to notice when it is cast on you. If you keep casting your damaging spells, people will die. Otherwise, you'll be fine. For instance, our resto druid had plenty of HoTs ticking but the damage everyone was taking was pathetic. However, I had a nuke go off and everyone around me got hit for 40-50k. My dots, however, were only ticking for about 4-5k.

If someone gets engulfing magic, they have to stop casting and leave immediately. Doing so will result in no deaths. This will take practice.
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Re: Valiona and Theralion [10]

Postby Arianne » Thu Jan 06, 2011 11:34 am

Depending on your raid comp, you can have your healers that are most 'deadly' for Engulfing Magic stand with the melee, which will reduce the likelihood that they get chosen (I believe on 10s this is 3 people at ranged). Resto Druids, Holy Priests, and Warlocks are pretty dangerous, so they get first priority to stand in melee range. You can also have these dangerous classes stand slightly behind the group but within fireball split range.
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Re: Valiona and Theralion [10]

Postby Chunes » Thu Jan 06, 2011 12:00 pm

I'm with the others that are pointing to poor reaction time and ill-prepared healers.

Our group wiped a few times the first night on this because our healers were just not prepared to use their lightning reflexes to gtfo of puddles and or remove themselves from the group when they get the exploding debuff.

As soon as they adapted, we downed them.
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Re: Valiona and Theralion [10]

Postby VikrumthePally » Thu Jan 06, 2011 1:14 pm

Didn't see anyone mention this. But if you have a Shaman in your raid Grounding Totem owns meteor. We have 2. :D
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Re: Valiona and Theralion [10]

Postby Astronomic » Fri Jan 07, 2011 6:10 am

Tried chicken's method last night and it works like a charm.
Now we just gotta get people focused during the theralion --> valiona transition.
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Re: Valiona and Theralion [10]

Postby Trav » Mon Jan 10, 2011 9:24 am

Astronomic wrote:Now we just gotta get people focused during the theralion --> valiona transition.


That was the hardest part of the fight for us, getting down that phase transition. We ended up putting raid markers on the two sides, so that the calls could be yellow, middle, or blue. The worst part is, Val tends to linger in one spot before she decides to move to another section right before the breath. So there were a lot of calls of "middle -- WAIT, blue!" on vent...
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Re: Valiona and Theralion [10]

Postby Astronomic » Wed Jan 19, 2011 1:10 pm

What healer/ranged comp are yall using to down them? Our guild's other group does 4 healers because their tank goes holy, but I have heard this being 2 healed.
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Re: Valiona and Theralion [10]

Postby Vort » Wed Jan 19, 2011 1:47 pm

VikrumthePally wrote:Didn't see anyone mention this. But if you have a Shaman in your raid Grounding Totem owns meteor. We have 2. :D


* Valiona's Blackout can no longer be absorbed by Grounding Totem or reflected. Its healing absorption effect has also been increased for 10-player normal difficulty.

They may do the same with meteor, just sayin.
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Re: Valiona and Theralion [10]

Postby Trav » Wed Jan 19, 2011 2:17 pm

Astronomic wrote:What healer/ranged comp are yall using to down them? Our guild's other group does 4 healers because their tank goes holy, but I have heard this being 2 healed.


Our comp was:

Me (Prot Pally)

Ret Pally
Rogue

Surv. Hunter
Arcane Mage
Demo Lock (2nd mage on our most recent kill)
Boomkin (bear tank's offspec)

Resto Druid
Resto Shammy
Holy Priest

Two healing it seems like it would be rough for our guild, but four seems like two many.
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Re: Valiona and Theralion [10]

Postby Epimer » Wed Jan 19, 2011 5:03 pm

Trav wrote:Two healing it seems like it would be rough for our guild, but four seems like two many.


My guild two healed the progression kill (I wasn't there for it), and I was the third healer this week. While the meters say I was nearly keeping up with the other two in terms of healing done over the course of the fight, I did feel pretty much surplus to requirements for the entire time. Four healers definitely seems excessive to me.
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Re: Valiona and Theralion [10]

Postby Astronomic » Fri Jan 21, 2011 6:41 am

Finally killed them last night after about 3 weeks. Turns out it was the healing, we had to bring in someone's alt (resto druid) because one of our healers was sick. He did about 11.5k HPS which was more than the 2 shammies combined.

Then, again because of healz, we go over to BWD and 2 shot omnitron for out 1st kill.

Are shaman just weak on healz? Cuz when I see ppl talking about how much healz their groups are doing, shammies seem to be on the low end. Also paragon, who utilizes raid stacking, went with only holy priest/pallies in alot of their kills.
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Re: Valiona and Theralion [10]

Postby Winkle » Fri Jan 21, 2011 7:14 am

Astronomic wrote:Finally killed them last night after about 3 weeks. Turns out it was the healing, we had to bring in someone's alt (resto druid) because one of our healers was sick. He did about 11.5k HPS which was more than the 2 shammies combined.

Then, again because of healz, we go over to BWD and 2 shot omnitron for out 1st kill.

Are shaman just weak on healz? Cuz when I see ppl talking about how much healz their groups are doing, shammies seem to be on the low end. Also paragon, who utilizes raid stacking, went with only holy priest/pallies in alot of their kills.


I don't think Resto Shammys are in the best spot right now, but if both your Resto shammys are only doing 5k HPS then you need better Resto shammys. TBH I don't see how you even managed to kill Halfus with that kind of healing.
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