So many trinkets!

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Re: So many trinkets!

Postby econ21 » Mon Jan 03, 2011 11:55 am

Thanks, Loras. That pally healer's scorn still smarts, so I have done some back of the envelope calculations. This is assuming agility gives 0.6094 dodge rating and factoring in diminishing returns given my rough level of gear.

I calculate that:

Tia's grace (333 level version) gives me 3.2% block and about 0.9% dodge (assuming 10 stacks are up).

Unsolvable riddle gives me 4% block and about 4.5% dodge on use.

These seem quite large effects, given that I calculate geming my 13 gem slots towards mastery/mixed mastery rather than stamina/mixed stamina would give me around 5% more block chance.
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Re: So many trinkets!

Postby Thelmiance » Wed Jan 05, 2011 7:32 am

There's some calculations for trinkets on my spreadsheet. As suggested, Tia's Grace is quite a good tanking trinket. I've got it as the third-best heroic trinket, behind Throngus's Finger and Porcelain Crab.
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Re: So many trinkets!

Postby econ21 » Wed Jan 05, 2011 8:18 am

Those are interesting calculations Thelmiance, thanks. Comparing Tia's Grace with the top two trinkets on your list, your ranking is based on their expected damage reduction, which is also what I've been using a yardstick to compare mastery and avoidance. Given that their expected damage reductions are rather close, I'm inclined to prefer Tia's Grace, as it may smooth out damage more. This is partly because the constant effect is mastery rather than avoidance, and partly because Tia's Grace seems to sustain 10 stacks constantly whereas the procs for the top two trinkets on your list only give brief bursts of avoidance.

I guess reforging some of the constant avoidance of the top two trinkets to mastery would push them further into the lead by your yardstick, although perhaps not so much that I would prefer them.
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Re: So many trinkets!

Postby Thelmiance » Wed Jan 05, 2011 11:08 am

It's also worth considering that Tia's gives a (quite) small amount of a dps boost, too. That's not worth a lot, but it's something. I think it's definitely a very solid trinket.
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Re: So many trinkets!

Postby Redleg » Wed Jan 05, 2011 12:24 pm

StarQ wrote:Regarding to the trinket question. I'm standing in front of hellscreams reach quartermaster and thinking of buying
Mirror of Broken Images.

Actually i have
Symbiotic Worm
Porcelain Crab

and on my bank
Figurine - Earthen Guardian

I want to replace the Crab with the new one. Don't want to lose the +stamina and +mastery below 35% HP. What do you mind?


I just picked up a Mirror of Broken Images and the on-use seems very good. It stacks with kings/motw and resistance aura/totem. So with kings + resistance aura + on-use, you are looking at 595 frost/fire/shadow resistance, and 497 arcane/nature resistance.

The character sheet resistance tooltip shows 595 resistance to be an average reduction of 50.32%, and 497 is 45.83%.
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Re: So many trinkets!

Postby econ21 » Wed Jan 05, 2011 2:41 pm

Redleg wrote:I just picked up a Mirror of Broken Images and the on-use seems very good.


I agree this looks very nice. I picked up the agility on use TB trinket, but am now going to grind commendations for this one. My problem with the "on use" aspect is knowing which fights to use it on. Which Cata bosses would it be good for? (i.e. which ones do bursts of damage it could be used to resist?)
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Re: So many trinkets!

Postby Jaitee » Wed Jan 05, 2011 5:21 pm

Redleg wrote:
StarQ wrote:Regarding to the trinket question. I'm standing in front of hellscreams reach quartermaster and thinking of buying
Mirror of Broken Images.

Actually i have
Symbiotic Worm
Porcelain Crab

and on my bank
Figurine - Earthen Guardian

I want to replace the Crab with the new one. Don't want to lose the +stamina and +mastery below 35% HP. What do you mind?


I just picked up a Mirror of Broken Images and the on-use seems very good. It stacks with kings/motw and resistance aura/totem. So with kings + resistance aura + on-use, you are looking at 595 frost/fire/shadow resistance, and 497 arcane/nature resistance.

The character sheet resistance tooltip shows 595 resistance to be an average reduction of 50.32%, and 497 is 45.83%.



the resistance part of the character sheet shows the reduction against a same level mob it drops significantly against a mob +3 levels from memory resistance aura gives about 25% reduction against a same level mob and drops to around half that against a raid boss...assuming that its about the same reduction at higher resistances its probably a 25% reduction...nothing to sneeze at especially considering that the things you would save it for ie dragon breaths are generally soem of the hardest hitting boss abilities
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Re: So many trinkets!

Postby Ventris » Sat Jan 08, 2011 7:36 am

I dunno if anyone's posted it but even though its an ilvl 318 trink, I've found tremendous use of this little one here.

http://www.wowhead.com/item=63742/zabroks-lucky-tooth

with a substantial amount of stam as well as over 1000 mastery on use, I've worked it into my cooldown rotation and had a lot of luck on it last night in our guild's first attempts at council of the four winds.
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Re: So many trinkets!

Postby fuzzygeek » Sat Jan 08, 2011 8:51 am

econ21 wrote:Which Cata bosses would it be good for? (i.e. which ones do bursts of damage it could be used to resist?)


Ascendant Council comes to mind. As do the Throne fights. Also Twin Dragons. Also Robot Council.
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Re: So many trinkets!

Postby Loras » Mon Jan 17, 2011 7:29 pm

Godly for Nefarian too.
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Re: So many trinkets!

Postby Bashe » Wed Jan 19, 2011 1:53 am

In cataclysm I've taken to gearing heavily towards mastery (my combat table coverage when I'm in raid buffs approaches 90% I believe, but hard to double-check right now for the exact number), I'm sure I'm not the only one who does this. This also includes all but ignoring stamina trinkets. I'm sure that if someone lets loose some math they could find a hole in my logic, but my thinking is that stacking stamina fails to account to the new healing situation where healers are constantly flirting OOM if they're healing 'big'.

My healthbar is currently big enough that almost nothing kills me too fast to be healed (barring mechanics fail) but sometimes damage comes in too rapidly over a period of time for healers to keep up without going out of mana. This is what I gear for (ie mastery, armor) and I'd equip a stamina trinket only if there's a really good one-use or proc.
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Re: So many trinkets!

Postby Awyndel » Sun Jan 23, 2011 7:13 am

I'm changing my mastery trinkets. Like most I am picking up http://www.wowhead.com/item=62466 .

I am also going to test how reliable http://www.wowhead.com/item=56394/tias-grace is, and how fast it stacks.

Those would both be great trinkets when we start getting closer to the block cap.
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Re: So many trinkets!

Postby econ21 » Mon Jan 24, 2011 2:30 am

Awyndel wrote:I am also going to test how reliable http://www.wowhead.com/item=56394/tias-grace is, and how fast it stacks.


In my experience, 100% reliable and stacks really fast. Everytime I look, it is 10 stacks. I love it.
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Re: So many trinkets!

Postby Gamingdevil » Mon Jan 24, 2011 3:21 am

econ21 wrote:
Awyndel wrote:I am also going to test how reliable http://www.wowhead.com/item=56394/tias-grace is, and how fast it stacks.


In my experience, 100% reliable and stacks really fast. Everytime I look, it is 10 stacks. I love it.


Agreed, it's amazing. The agility provides about 0.80% dodge
If it is weak, kill it before it gets stronger. If it is strong, weaken it.
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Re: So many trinkets!

Postby Awyndel » Mon Jan 24, 2011 9:50 am

Gamingdevil wrote:
econ21 wrote:
Awyndel wrote:I am also going to test how reliable http://www.wowhead.com/item=56394/tias-grace is, and how fast it stacks.


In my experience, 100% reliable and stacks really fast. Everytime I look, it is 10 stacks. I love it.


Agreed, it's amazing. The agility provides about 0.80% dodge


Oh. My. God.

This thing better drop soon for me!!!
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Re: So many trinkets!

Postby Senador » Mon Jan 24, 2011 10:24 am

Which Cata bosses would it be good for? (i.e. which ones do bursts of damage it could be used to resist?)


Omnitron, if you are targeted by Flamethrower, while tanking the other active Golem.

Maloriak while having the debuff during Red Vial phase.

Nefarion’s electrocutes and breath attacks.

Conclave of Wind, Nezir’s cold cone, or ultimate.

Al’akir’s electrocute, Acid Rain and the lightning rod effect in phase 3.

Ascendant Council, Ignatius’ fire cone/AoE, Galciate, Lightning AoE

Cho’gall Flame Orders, phase 2 AoE
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Re: So many trinkets!

Postby Loras » Mon Jan 24, 2011 12:26 pm

Awyndel, instead of Tia's Grace, just pick the mastery/agi-on-use Tol Barad epic trinket. More passive mastery, and huge dodge-on-demand.
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Re: So many trinkets!

Postby Olen » Tue Jan 25, 2011 4:36 pm

IMO stick with Tia's Grace over Unsolvable Riddle. Tia's Grace provides more CCT against melee, while the 2m cd /use AGI only gives you 4ish% Dodge. That's hardly even a cooldown.
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Re: So many trinkets!

Postby econ21 » Sun Jan 30, 2011 10:23 am

I think I will go for both Tia's Grace and Unsolvable Riddle for my default avoidance/mastery trinkets (for heroics). I will probably use the Tol Barad resistance one and a stamina one for raid bosses.

I did just buy Impetuous Query but after testing it out, think Unsolvable Riddle gets the nod. Unsolvable Riddle gives me a flat 0.87% more CTC. The on use effect is weaker, 3.97% dodge compared to 5.18%, but overall I think I would prefer a permanent 0.87% CTC to an extra 1.21% dodge on demand (0.87 points of which the Riddle would have blocked). I admit it's surprisingly close, however - given that we are comparing a 359 trinket with a 333 one.
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Re: So many trinkets!

Postby Loras » Sun Jan 30, 2011 10:59 am

Unsolvable Riddle gives more dodge on demand actually, since the Agility scales with BoK/MotW
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Re: So many trinkets!

Postby econ21 » Sun Jan 30, 2011 5:41 pm

Loras wrote:Unsolvable Riddle gives more dodge on demand actually, since the Agility scales with BoK/MotW


Not for me it doesn't - those numbers I quoted are calculated from running the CTC macro before and after pressing the on use button for each trinket, while practicing on a dummy with BoK up.
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Re: So many trinkets!

Postby Vort » Sun Jan 30, 2011 6:09 pm

I'm not at home so I can't give hard numbers but I'm pretty sure Unsolvable Riddle grants me over just over 5% dodge. It's incredible if you're quite close to the cap and need it for a big string of incoming hits. If I pop it raid buffed I hit the 102.4%, only JUST but that's all I need.
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Re: So many trinkets!

Postby Loras » Sun Jan 30, 2011 10:04 pm

Nah, your numbers are off. I have 11.94% dodge unbuffed, and Unsolvable Riddle gives me something like 3.9x% dodge on use, if I buff myself with BoK/MotW, the dodge goes to 4.0x or something like that.

I don't know what macro you're using, but I can swear I've specifically tested it and seen the numbers on the character sheet increase the proper way.

P.S. And that's the thing that worried me and I was asking in another thread some time ago, but I didn't get a reply. Str -> Parry = 4:1. Agility, on the other hand, I read on these boards, is about 75% as effective as dodge, so should be Agi -> Dodge = 4:3. Which doesn't seem right, cause the Str use trinket from TB gives me just under 2% parry (~1600 str = ~400 parry = ~2% parry I guess), but the Agility on use gives me around 4% dodge, something like 2.x times more than the parry I get, so the ration, from that experiment, would be closer to Agi->Dodge = 2.x : 1. How come?
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Re: So many trinkets!

Postby econ21 » Mon Jan 31, 2011 2:23 am

Loras wrote:Nah, your numbers are off. I have 11.94% dodge unbuffed, and Unsolvable Riddle gives me something like 3.9x% dodge on use, if I buff myself with BoK/MotW, the dodge goes to 4.0x or something like that.


I will check again tonight, but right now, I am not sure why you are disagreeing with me - my 3.97% with kings is the same as your 4.0x to one decimal place. Kings only buffs stats by 5%, so I would not expect a 3.9% to become the 5% Vort reports.

P.S. And that's the thing that worried me and I was asking in another thread some time ago, but I didn't get a reply. Str -> Parry = 4:1. Agility, on the other hand, I read on these boards, is about 75% as effective as dodge, so should be Agi -> Dodge = 4:3. Which doesn't seem right, cause the Str use trinket from TB gives me just under 2% parry (~1600 str = ~400 parry = ~2% parry I guess), but the Agility on use gives me around 4% dodge, something like 2.x times more than the parry I get, so the ration, from that experiment, would be closer to Agi->Dodge = 2.x : 1. How come?


What I took from one of theckhd's posts was that the conversion of agility to dodge for us is typically 0.6 rather than 0.75. I'll also test the strength one tonight and report back.
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Re: So many trinkets!

Postby Loras » Mon Jan 31, 2011 9:03 am

I'm disagreeing only because you said the Agility-on-demand is not affected by BoK, which is not the case :) Should've organized the post better, as half of it was for you, the other half for Vort.

And yeah, 0.6 sounds much more like it. Would be appreciated if you can post the link of that writing if you find it. Thanks :)
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