Seal of Insight vs. Seal of Vengeance

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Seal of Insight vs. Seal of Vengeance

Postby theothersteve7 » Thu Dec 30, 2010 2:33 pm

I need some opinions here. I'm really not sure when I should be using either seal, and it's also making me unsure about my glyph choices. With a threat lead and no particularly heavy tank damage on the horizon, should I be using Insight or Vengeance?

Intuition tells me that if my healers are in danger of running OOM, I should use insight, and if the enrage is a bigger factor, I should use Vengeance. But at the same time, if the heals are inefficient enough it might be better to just let the healers deal with it most of the time. Does anyone have experiences, data, or opinions on this matter?

In particular I'd love to hear what kind of numbers it puts out over the course of typical raid fights.
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Re: Seal of Insight vs. Seal of Vengeance

Postby inthedrops » Thu Dec 30, 2010 3:43 pm

To be honest, SoI doesn't really put out all that much healing. But if DPS isn't a factor, and threat isn't a factor, I switch over anyway as every little bit can help.

In the last Cho'Gal fight we did, I had SoI up for all but the first minute or so, here is a combat log so you can see the healing it did:

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/cis522rfcp1dssdo/sum/healingDone/?s=4021&e=4425

WoG was almost 60% of my healing done and SoI accounted for 23%. SoI averaged 2927 per heal.

Also for reference I used WoG 42 times and ShoR exactly TWICE.
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Re: Seal of Insight vs. Seal of Vengeance

Postby elite » Thu Dec 30, 2010 11:28 pm

Ive been running with SoI + WOG

at start ill use my free 3 HP to toss a SoTR and after I gain 3 HP another one but from then on its pure WOG.

I tend to find the healing done at end of fights adds significantly more then the dmg SoT could have done. threat isn't an issue at the moment with vengance stacks ...
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Re: Seal of Insight vs. Seal of Vengeance

Postby DJSticky » Fri Dec 31, 2010 12:00 am

If you are talking bosses strictly it's a bit of an easier decision. If threat is consistantly a non issue for you on the fight with your specific DPS, then use insight as every bit of healer mana counts.

I find that I use both on bosses that you have to repeatedly pick up, like omnitron or counsel. But on stuff like Art or Half I just start out with insight and keep it on. If people are getting to more then 90% of your threat you can always Salv them and use a shield slam or two on your Duty procs.

For 5 man or trash I pretty much use SoT just because it lets me be lazier.

Fwiw I nearly always glyph wog and seal of insight. If I plan on doing 5 mans or certain trash I'll swap Insight glyph for HoTR.
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Re: Seal of Insight vs. Seal of Vengeance

Postby Tiandelin » Fri Dec 31, 2010 7:24 am

I usually use SoI when I can get away with it, which is most of the time given the threat situation these days. As noted, it's not a huge amount of healing, but it's not insignificant either. For as often as it procs, it's basically like having another hot on you. Given a choice between excess (useless) threat and a hot, the answer seems obvious to me.
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Re: Seal of Insight vs. Seal of Vengeance

Postby DJSticky » Fri Dec 31, 2010 1:01 pm

Tiandelin wrote:Given a choice between excess (useless) threat and a hot, the answer seems obvious to me.


Exactly. Same min/max idea as the "I've hit the EH requirement for this fight, more EH or more avoidance?"

Plus I glyph for it, so that's an extra bonus.
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Re: Seal of Insight vs. Seal of Vengeance

Postby Xkonvikt » Mon Jan 03, 2011 9:43 am

What I usually do is this.

Pop, DP, Judge, SotR, generate 3 HoPo again, SotR, Then WoG it up, until boss is at 70% then use SoI till the end. If I see anyone getting to around 90% threat I just pop SoT generate some HoPo then do a couple SotR.

It is pretty much preference when you use SoI, it also depends how strong a healer you have.
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Re: Seal of Insight vs. Seal of Vengeance

Postby Arcand » Mon Jan 03, 2011 9:54 am

With Insight and WoG, I usually end up doing 25-30% of the
group's healing; some healers don't need it but I'm sure it
makes things easier for them...and that may not even be including
damage soaked by WoG bubbles.

Insight's mana generation also means that if you get a string of
Grand Crusader procs, you can break rotation and pop them off
without crippling yourself. Without Insight or JotW ticks, your
mana supply can crash awful fast.
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Re: Seal of Insight vs. Seal of Vengeance

Postby Xkonvikt » Mon Jan 03, 2011 10:01 am

Arcand wrote:With Insight and WoG, I usually end up doing 25-30% of the
group's healing; some healers don't need it but I'm sure it
makes things easier for them...and that may not even be including
damage soaked by WoG bubbles.

Insight's mana generation also means that if you get a string of
Grand Crusader procs, you can break rotation and pop them off
without crippling yourself. Without Insight or JotW ticks, your
mana supply can crash awful fast.



Very rarely have I had manna issues. If I did it was because after using CS I didn't cast judge on every CD, in which you should.
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Re: Seal of Insight vs. Seal of Vengeance

Postby theothersteve7 » Mon Jan 03, 2011 11:33 am

Arcand was posting from a 5-man perspective, I think, since that's the only time where you'd prioritize AS and also the time where you'd run into mana problems (mostly from consecrate).

Sounds like I'll be glyphing and sealing Insight in the raid next week. I think I'll mess with my keybinds so I can switch easily, too. I like the idea of switching to Insight after threat is established. Cool, thanks.
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Re: Seal of Insight vs. Seal of Vengeance

Postby Xkonvikt » Mon Jan 03, 2011 2:34 pm

theothersteve7 wrote:Arcand was posting from a 5-man perspective, I think, since that's the only time where you'd prioritize AS and also the time where you'd run into mana problems (mostly from consecrate).

Sounds like I'll be glyphing and sealing Insight in the raid next week. I think I'll mess with my keybinds so I can switch easily, too. I like the idea of switching to Insight after threat is established. Cool, thanks.


I have a bar that is near my avatar that is a fade in out with a fade delay, with a lot of my Cd'S. Most of the time it's use is just to track their timers, some I click to eliminate haveing to hit 2 different buttons to pop something that I could just click since my mouse stays near the center of my screen anyway.
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Re: Seal of Insight vs. Seal of Vengeance

Postby Arcand » Wed Jan 05, 2011 8:58 am

theothersteve7 wrote:Arcand was posting from a 5-man perspective, I think, since that's the only time where you'd prioritize AS and also the time where you'd run into mana problems (mostly from consecrate).


Yeah, 5-man heroics is where that happens for me. If I'm tanking one of the Grim Batol nukefests where half the bad guys are stunnable by Wrath and there are casters all over the place, you can take noticeably less damage by prioritizing Wrath and AS. The bad news is you can only neglect Judgement for so long before buttons start going dark.
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