4.3 Item Enhancement Guide

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Re: 4.0.3a Item Enhancement Guide

Postby Digren » Sat Dec 18, 2010 9:54 am

Every socket bonus I've seen is good. Free points is free points.

The stamina/mastery discussion is going to focus on whether we should be using pure mastery gems, or mastery/sta gems in yellow slots. There's no indication we'll consider stacking stamina in lieu of the socket bonus. All of course subject to change in a future tier.
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Re: 4.0.3a Item Enhancement Guide

Postby econ21 » Sat Dec 18, 2010 8:41 pm

Digren wrote:The stamina/mastery discussion is going to focus on whether we should be using pure mastery gems, or mastery/sta gems in yellow slots.


I'll be interested to read what you come up with.

Maybe I am reading too much into what you've just written but I would not confine the discussion to yellow slots. There's also the possibility of using mastery/parry gems in red slots and mastery/sta gems in blue slots. If you prefer pure mastery over stamina/mastery in a yellow, you'd prefer stamina/mastery over pure stamina in a blue. Ditto mastery/parry vs stamina/parry in a red.

I'd also throw stamina vs avoidance into the mix, as Vexryn's argument for mastery is that it reduces expected damage intake, which dodge and parry do even better if I am understanding things right[1]. I know there is also the "small average hit" argument for block capping, but that is not Vexryn's argument.


[1] For my main, 177 extra dodge rating gives 1% avoidance, so 1 dodge gives me 0.00565 damage reduction (1/177)
79.68 mastery rating gives 1% block, so 1 mastery gives 0.00502 damage reduction (0.4*1/79.68)
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Re: 4.0.3a Item Enhancement Guide

Postby Rhiannon » Tue Dec 21, 2010 9:23 am

econ21 wrote:[1] For my main, 177 extra dodge rating gives 1% avoidance, so 1 dodge gives me 0.00565 damage reduction (1/177)
79.68 mastery rating gives 1% block, so 1 mastery gives 0.00502 damage reduction (0.4*1/79.68)


Dodge/parry rating is subject to diminishing returns., mastery is not. At any reasonable value of dodge/parry rating, an equal amount of mastery rating will result in more average damage reduction. 1% dodge/parry = 176.7 rating only when no diminishing returns are in effect i.e. never.
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Re: 4.0.3a Item Enhancement Guide

Postby econ21 » Wed Dec 22, 2010 5:31 am

EDIT: Rhiannon and theckhd, you are right - I made a mistake in the calculations. :oops:

Mastery is better than avoidance for expected damage reduction, my bad.

However, if I am calculating it right this time, the difference is not so large that one would prefer a mixed mastery gem to a pure avoidance one by that metric.

I calculate that the value of a unit of dodge rating for me in terms of expected damage reduction is equal to 0.004854 (i.e. 1/206).
The corresponding value of a unit of mastery rating which is 0.00502 (0.4/79.68)

http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.com/ ... =viewtopic
Last edited by econ21 on Wed Dec 22, 2010 1:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 4.0.3a Item Enhancement Guide

Postby theckhd » Wed Dec 22, 2010 7:37 am

econ21 wrote:If I have made a mistake in the calculations, I'd be interested to know


You made a mistake. It should have been pretty obvious that there was a mistake as soon as you noticed that the rating->dodge conversion factor you were getting was 177 no matter what amount of dodge % you put into the calculation.
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Re: 4.0.3a Item Enhancement Guide

Postby pyrile » Wed Dec 22, 2010 12:27 pm

Is the bladeward weapon enchant relevant anymore? I have it on my toon now and it procs all the time
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Re: 4.0.3a Item Enhancement Guide

Postby theothersteve7 » Wed Dec 22, 2010 1:23 pm

pyrile wrote:Is the bladeward weapon enchant relevant anymore? I have it on my toon now and it procs all the time


Windwalk is the spiritual successor to Blade Ward, and is substantially better. Both run about 1 PPM, so the buff is up about evenly between them, but Windwalk provides 600 dodge as opposed to 200 parry. It's almost exactly three times as good.

Windwalk is worth about 100 dodge rating. Blade Ward is worth about 33 parry rating.
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Re: 4.0.3a Item Enhancement Guide

Postby twilytgardnfaery » Fri Dec 24, 2010 7:18 am

Very minor little thing, but in the enchantment portion, under weapons, you have the Pyrium Weapon Chain listed as Enchanting rather than Blacksmithing. :oops: Fantastic guide, as always, thank you for breaking it all down. It's been a while since gemming and enchanting has actually required thought, so it's nice to have the guidance in getting used to that again!
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Re: 4.0.3a Item Enhancement Guide

Postby excalibrax » Fri Dec 24, 2010 6:29 pm

[*][Fine Ember Topaz] : +20 Parry Rating and +20 Mastery Rating : Jewelcrafting

I am debating this over for Red gems over the recomended Sta/parry gem, Would this not be better?
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Re: 4.0.3a Item Enhancement Guide

Postby yappo » Mon Dec 27, 2010 5:12 am

The weapon chain is blacksmithing and not enchanting.

I'm not raiding, so my opinion might very well be void, but here goes:

I'm throwing out stamina left and right in favour of mastery and stamina in that order. While the random PUG hates my appearance when I drop in, my guild healer loves me. 135 or 150 k health just doesn't matter, but an aggregated 6% extra avoidance/block sure does.

At an 340 ilevel my 5% miss, 11.5% dodge, 11.8% (yes, I know the difference ought to be a full %) parry and 45% block gives me around 73% aggregate. I think I can push it to 75% without upgrading gear. The alternative (stamina-stacking) would drop me to 67%, and I personally prefer staying alive to pulling with more initial health.
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Re: 4.0.3a Item Enhancement Guide

Postby Digren » Tue Dec 28, 2010 2:49 pm

excalibrax wrote:[*][Fine Ember Topaz] : +20 Parry Rating and +20 Mastery Rating : Jewelcrafting

I am debating this over for Red gems over the recomended Sta/parry gem, Would this not be better?

We're really just now getting the first reports as to whether stamina or mastery are better for leveling out healing and improving survivability in typical encounters. Your report and the one below it both seem to indicate mastery. We'll keep watching.
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Re: 4.0.3a Item Enhancement Guide

Postby 99sitr » Tue Dec 28, 2010 4:30 pm

Would it be advisable to start a pure avoidance set for encounters like Chimaeron in BRD? As that boss has a fairly slow melee and pure avoidance is a lot more Important that EH for the 1st phase and even in the second phase a difference of 30k hp wouldn't be that much of a difference.

Here is my current profile Vonkaiser of Team Intensity.

I'm still getting mats for the more appropriate enchants so disregard those.
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Re: 4.0.3a Item Enhancement Guide

Postby Digren » Tue Dec 28, 2010 5:21 pm

I don't know that building a specific set for any heroic is worth the effort. You'll outlevel it fairly quickly regardless as your general gear set, and that of your healer and DPS, improve.

That said, the increased focus on mastery is basically building an avoidance set. Remember that mastery rating reduces incoming damage taken more than the same amount of dodge or parry rating for any geared 85 tank. Thus a mastery set > avoidance set in all cases*.


* barring encounters where a block applies some sort of secondary debuff or bleed, but a dodge or parry does not.
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Re: 4.0.3a Item Enhancement Guide

Postby econ21 » Wed Dec 29, 2010 3:53 am

It might be worth mentioning that a few enchants are likely to be very expensive at least early on, as they require two maelstrom crystals that come from disenchanting epics: specifically greater stamina on chest and greater mastery on gloves (both require 2 iirc); and windwalk (requires 6). I'll be using cheaper fallbacks for a while - +55 stamina on chest, +50 mastery on gloves (not on your list last time I checked) and mending on weapon.
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Re: 4.0.3a Item Enhancement Guide

Postby Digren » Wed Dec 29, 2010 10:29 am

twilytgardnfaery wrote:Very minor little thing, but in the enchantment portion, under weapons, you have the Pyrium Weapon Chain listed as Enchanting rather than Blacksmithing. :oops: Fantastic guide, as always, thank you for breaking it all down. It's been a while since gemming and enchanting has actually required thought, so it's nice to have the guidance in getting used to that again!

Fixed, thanks!
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