[Ret] A (semi) Guide for 4.06

Ret, Holy, PVP, etc

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[Ret] A (semi) Guide for 4.06

Postby warden » Mon Dec 20, 2010 8:09 pm

First and foremost: I was going to write a long guide here, but Exemplar recently updated his amazing guide on EJ, and I found myself quoting more than 3/4 of my post directy from him. I'm going write a brief summary here, but please go check out his work at http://elitistjerks.com/f76/t110342-ret ... ce_4_0_3a/ for some truly outstanding work and in-depth answers. All of the questions below have been updated for 4.06 or have a 4.06 note now.

Simple questions, short answers:

Q: What is my best spec?
A: Ret has two flex points in its "cookie cutter" spec. If you're looking for a basic spec to start with, this one picks up one point in Eye for an Eye (minor dps increase on some fights) and one point in Acts of Sacrifice for the movement-imparing effect dispel on cleanse. Notice the effect is not required to be a poison or disease; it works just fine on any movement imparing effect. http://www.wowhead.com/talent#sbhMZMZsbGsdkszfk
4.06: The spec hasn't changed. Sacred Shield is now an optional (but VERY strong) talent in the place where Rebuke used to be, but there's nothing even close to better to put that point in.

Q: What glyphs should I use?
A: Only prime glyphs directly impact dps. Use Seal of Truth, Templar's Verdict, and Exorcism. Major and minor glyphs vary between mana-saving and additional utility. See EJ for a full writeup. I use Divine Plea, Lay on Hands, and swap the 3rd between holy wrath for utility, consecration for heavy aoe dps, and Ascetic Crusader for mana saving, but that's just me.
4.06: Glyph of Exorcism has overtaken Crusader Strike and is now worth more dps. Templar's Verdict and Seal of Truth remain the two highest dps glyphs.

Q: How should I gear?
A: Get to your hit and expertise caps (8% and 26 expertise skill with SoT glyph). After that, mastery>crit>>>haste. Any agility piece is significantly inferior to a plate counterpart with the removal of AP on agility pieces. There is a lot of speculation about exact stat weights with no 100% solid values yet; If the above isn't specific enough, use one of the spreadsheets to determine stat weights for your own specific gear.
4.06: Mastery barely edges crit, but both are significantly better than haste. Furthermore, testing has shown that the value of mastery scales upward as your crit increases, and vice versa. Aim to keep them reasonably balanced.

Q: But what about stacking X amount of haste?
A: You cannot stack enough haste to get to a 3 second (or 3sec+ latency) crusader strike like you could in Wrath; this is no longer a viable gearing option. Haste is still valuable for white dps, AoW and Divine Purpose procs, etc, but your rotation will naturally fall into CS-filler-filler naturally.
4.06: The above remains true for 4.06

Q: What about gemming?
A: The Reverberating Shadowspirit Diamond is now the undisputed king of metas for ret (54 Str and 3% crit damage). Current math indicates gemming Str/Mastery in a yellow socket, or Str/Hit in a blue is viable for a single-socket 20 str bonus, or a two socket 30 str bonus. See Exemplar's post on EJ for more details.
4.06: Significant changes, so I just re-wrote the above paragraph.

Q: I've heard a lot of conflicting things about Inquisition...
A: Use it if the fight is going to last longer than 25 seconds. Only use it at 3 holy power. If there are 6 (some sources say 4) or less seconds left on Inq and you have 3 holy power, refresh it. Seven or more, and you'll probably manage 3 more holy power before it falls off. This is your single biggest dps increase by FAR. Many new abilities do holy damage--see Exemplar's post for more details.

Q: So then my rotation is what?
A: You still have an FCFS rotation. It has become a bit more complicated however, as using CS on CD for holy power generation is now more important. Here is a rough breakdown: CS (at 1 or 2 HP)>Inq>3HP TV>HoW>Exo>TV (proc)>Judge>Holy Wrath>Consecrate. The biggest change that this means for you: If you have 1 or 2 holy power, CS is off cooldown, and you get a Divine Purpose proc, use CS to get that 3rd holy power, then use the proc as a filler, rather than pushing back the CS to burn that proc.

For multi target (more than 4 targets), sub Divine Storm for CS and Consecration for Holy Wrath. It seems awkward in theory, but in reality falls into a very nice CS-Filler-Filler-CS-Filler-Filler-Filler style rotation. There will be a little white space, which I fine useful to pop Divine Plea. Remember, Divine Storm got a nice buff last patch.

4.06: With the 4pc bonus becoming a reality for many, it bears having its own section here. With the 4pc bonus, refreshing Inquistion at ANY amount of holy power is viable. With the 4pc, refreshing when Inq is at 2 sec or less is the way to go, and you'll find yourself doing a lot of 1HP refreshes, which is fine.

Q: When should I use my cooldowns?
A: Unless you need them to be up for a specific portion of the fight, use AW and Zealotry early, and they should be up again midway through most boss fights. AV and Zealotry have been shown to be a dps increse when used TOGETHER now, unlike before. Furthermore, even during Zealotry you'll use CS->Filler->Filler; with AW up, many of those fillers will be Hammer of Wrath. Your should rarely (if ever) see Holy Wrath come up during AW/Zealotry due to plentiful higher-dps fillers. I prefer to use cooldowns immediately after refreshing a full 3HP inquisition. Use GAnK early as well if you anticipate the fight lasting longer than 5 minutes. It can be synched with any other CD without penalty. Remember that due to reduced judging, your mana will suffer during AW and Zealotry use; pop divine plea before using CDs if you're low on mana.
4.06: Due to significant changes, I've re-written the above paragraph instead.

Q: Do any professions provide a distinct bonus over others?
A: All of the str-giving professions (Leatherworking, BS, JC, Alchemy, etc) are roughly equal. Tailoring can edge these in many situations and if used correctly the new Engineer glove tinkers can perform better than the static-stat professions; see Exemplar's guide for specific details.
4.06: With the addition of the 50 Str enchant for bracers, Leatherworking is now equal to the other Str-giving professions (80 str gain over the enchant). Due to mastery changes, the JC trinket increases in value for pre-raid gearing, while the Alchemy trinket remains viable for raiding well into ilvl359 content.

I'll try to keep updating this post, and provide my WAG at a pre-raid BiS list (I built mine before we had solid stat values) in future updates. Please feel free to hit me up with questions you might have, after reading Exemplar's outstanding work first.
Last edited by warden on Fri Feb 11, 2011 2:10 pm, edited 9 times in total.
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Re: [Ret] Answering Questions and Dispelling Myths

Postby warden » Mon Dec 20, 2010 8:10 pm

I'll update this post with more information later. CLCRet and CLCInfo have been updated for 4.06 changes and the new rotation complexities.

Edit: Requested power auras posted below.

Code: Select all
Version:4.12; icon:spell_paladin_inquisition; buffname:Inquisition; x:137; alpha:0.5; owntex:true; exact:true; size:0.26; y:0; texmode:2; timer.HideLeadingZeros:true; timer.h:1.84; timer.Texture:AccidentalPresidency; timer.enabled:true; timer.cents:false; timer.Relative:CENTER


Code: Select all
Version:4.12; icon:Spell_Holy_AvengineWrath; buffname:Avenging Wrath; x:137; alpha:0.5; owntex:true; exact:true; size:0.26; y:70; texmode:2; timer.HideLeadingZeros:true; timer.h:1.84; timer.Texture:AccidentalPresidency; timer.enabled:true; timer.cents:false; timer.Relative:CENTER


Code: Select all
Version:4.12; icon:Spell_Holy_ProclaimChampion_02; buffname:Zealotry; x:137; alpha:0.5; owntex:true; exact:true; size:0.26; y:-70; texmode:2; timer.HideLeadingZeros:true; timer.h:1.84; timer.Texture:AccidentalPresidency; timer.enabled:true; timer.cents:false; timer.Relative:CENTER


Code: Select all
Version:4.12; icon:Spell_Holy_Restoration; buffname:Divine Protection; x:207; alpha:0.5; owntex:true; exact:true; size:0.26; y:0; texmode:2; timer.HideLeadingZeros:true; timer.h:1.84; timer.Texture:AccidentalPresidency; timer.enabled:true; timer.cents:false; timer.Relative:CENTER


Code: Select all
Version:4.12; icon:Spell_Holy_Heroism; buffname:Guardian of Ancient Kings; x:207; alpha:0.5; owntex:true; exact:true; size:0.26; y:70; texmode:2; timer.HideLeadingZeros:true; timer.h:1.84; timer.Texture:AccidentalPresidency; timer.enabled:true; timer.cents:false; timer.Relative:CENTER


Code: Select all
Version:4.12; icon:Spell_Holy_ArdentDefender; buffname:Ardent Defender; x:207; alpha:0.5; owntex:true; exact:true; size:0.26; y:-70; texmode:2; timer.HideLeadingZeros:true; timer.h:1.84; timer.Texture:AccidentalPresidency; timer.enabled:true; timer.cents:false; timer.Relative:CENTER


Code: Select all
Version:4.12; icon:spell_holy_powerwordbarrier; buffname:Divine Guardian; x:137; alpha:0.5; owntex:true; mine:true; exact:true; size:0.26; y:-70; texmode:2; timer.HideLeadingZeros:true; timer.h:1.84; timer.Texture:AccidentalPresidency; timer.enabled:true; timer.cents:false; timer.Relative:CENTER
Last edited by warden on Sun Feb 20, 2011 10:18 pm, edited 6 times in total.
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Re: [Ret] Answering Questions and Dispelling Myths

Postby warden » Mon Dec 20, 2010 8:10 pm

Reserved for more space.
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Re: [Ret] Answering Questions and Dispelling Myths

Postby Haberjinx » Tue Dec 21, 2010 10:05 am

For cooldowns I like to use Zealotry and when there are about 6 secs left on zealotry i'll use GAnK. when Zealotry runs out I immediately pop wings. GAnK will flow into each cooldown. I use the Str/Mastery trink from Grim Batol afterwards because it clashes with Zealotry.
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Re: [Ret] Answering Questions and Dispelling Myths

Postby Kelaan » Tue Dec 21, 2010 12:16 pm

Awesome, thank you! Does CLCInfo come with presets for ret? I couldn't for the life of me figure out how to set it up from scratch last time. :-(
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Re: [Ret] Answering Questions and Dispelling Myths

Postby warden » Tue Dec 21, 2010 12:35 pm

It does to an extent, but they still require some configuring. Clcret still works, but doesn't have the accuracy needed to correctly model the rotation for ideal dps. Its also missing support for inquisition among other things. I found an outstanding guide on clcinfo that I'll post a link to when I get home. Also, if you'd like, I can post my setup on it--I'll try to export the settings (I think it lets you export strings like power auras), but if not, I'll let you know what I'm doing as far as the configuration.
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Re: [Ret] Answering Questions and Dispelling Myths

Postby Nemi » Wed Dec 22, 2010 4:33 am

as you mentioned in another thread, people are unable to check EJ at work , is there any way you could copypasta here? You've already stated its not your work :)
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Re: [Ret] Answering Questions and Dispelling Myths

Postby Kelaan » Wed Dec 22, 2010 12:10 pm

Str is ~2x better than hit rating, and ~3x or more better than expertise.
Hit and expertise are generally ~2x better than Anything Else. Haste is about half as valuable as crit is. That should be close enough for a general idea. (So, gem for Str as much as possible, unless you get a juicy gem bonus. Since you can't reforge to Str, we want to reforge haste into Anything Else, and generally try to prioritize hit and expertise capping via reforging.)

Interesting that a 3sec GCD is not feasible at all right now, as that COMPLETELY changes the effective rotation. Priorities are the same, though, at least :)
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Re: [Ret] Answering Questions and Dispelling Myths

Postby d503 » Wed Dec 22, 2010 12:19 pm

warden wrote:It does to an extent, but they still require some configuring. Clcret still works, but doesn't have the accuracy needed to correctly model the rotation for ideal dps. Its also missing support for inquisition among other things. I found an outstanding guide on clcinfo that I'll post a link to when I get home. Also, if you'd like, I can post my setup on it--I'll try to export the settings (I think it lets you export strings like power auras), but if not, I'll let you know what I'm doing as far as the configuration.


CLCRet does allow for Inquisition prioritization, it's just on another page (not the standard FCFS page). You can set how many seconds you want it to suggest a refresh at (I set mine to 5).

It works pretty well.
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Re: [Ret] Answering Questions and Dispelling Myths

Postby warden » Wed Dec 22, 2010 1:13 pm

Interesting, I hadn't seen that page. I'll check again when I get home--might have had an outdated version. Still, I like my clcinfo setup, so I probably won't end up changing. Thanks to everyone who is contributing to the discussion here. Also, for those wondering, Kelaan's post is a pretty accurate summary of two paragraphs of discussion on stat weightings from the EJ thread, if you can't see EJ from where you are.
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Re: [Ret] A (semi) Guide for 4.06

Postby warden » Fri Feb 11, 2011 2:09 pm

OP is updated for 4.06 changes. Please let me know if you have questions or additional content you'd like to see added.
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