Who can CC what

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Re: Who can CC what

Postby Ojimaru » Tue Dec 14, 2010 11:38 pm

Arcand wrote:Another drawback of mind control is that it generates a huge amount of threat.

That's irrelevant, of course, if you can get the target killed before MC breaks.
But if MC does break early, the priest is probably tanking that mob. I seem
to remember that you couldn't even taunt them off after an MC, but I'm not sure
about that - it's been too long.

Unless they've changed the mechanic, mobs getting pissy over a harmless Mind Control can still be peeled of the Priest with a quick "Yo momma...".
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Re: Who can CC what

Postby fetznschaedl » Wed Dec 15, 2010 12:07 am

Can a warlock fear one target and seduce another?


Yes they can! Seduce is an ability the pet uses, so it leaves the warlock free to cast whatever he wishes, which includes fear.

I seem to remember that you couldn't even taunt them off after an MC, but I'm not sure
about that - it's been too long.


I don't think that's ever been true, the problem mostly was that the mob had nothing else on it's threat list and ran towards the priest as soon as the MC broke. Once you taunt the mob, however, you are automatically put on top it's threat list. That was true then and still is.
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Re: Who can CC what

Postby Ojimaru » Wed Dec 15, 2010 2:37 am

Actually... unless WOWHead is wrong, Mind Control only works on Humanoids of up to Level 41...

Can anybody confirm?
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Re: Who can CC what

Postby claisa » Wed Dec 15, 2010 7:47 am

i can confirm wowhead is very wrong.

MC is teh win in heroics
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Re: Who can CC what

Postby Malthrax » Wed Dec 15, 2010 9:06 am

econ21 wrote:
Sabindeus wrote:I think you should note that Ret Paladin's Repentance has a CD = Duration, so it can't be reapplied easily.


I am not following that - surely if CD=duration, it can be reapplied just when you need to reapply it? I guess you mean it cannot be reapplied if broken prematurely? But still with careful players it seems like you can shut down one mob almost indefinitely (I am not sure if there is some kind of diminishing returns to CC in PvE, I recall there is in PvP, but anyway 2mins is a long time for a trash fight).

But now you mention it, putting in CDs for these abilities may be worthwhile.


Since the duration is exactly equal to the cooldown, there will always be some lag time (appx. 1 global cooldown + round-trip latency) between the time the Repentance expires, freeing the mob, and the player is able to re-apply it.

Just make sure to Repent far enough away from the burn target as to have plenty of time to re-apply it before it reaches the Consecrate/D&D/melee-AOE cloud. Its amazing how far an NPC can run in 1.5 seconds.
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Re: Who can CC what

Postby Malthrax » Wed Dec 15, 2010 9:11 am

econ21 wrote:Added Mind control and seduce, as they do sound useful (and I recall them being great in MGT). Corrected typos (blame cut and paste). Can a warlock fear one target and seduce another? With such short durations, they'd probably not do much else but with DOTs still ticking away on non-CC mobs, it could still be effective.


With fast reaction time and low server latency, a capable Warlock should be able to banish one, succy-seduce one, and chain-fear a third... though his DPS will be in the toilet as a result.
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Re: Who can CC what

Postby Arcand » Wed Dec 15, 2010 10:22 am

Ojimaru wrote:Actually... unless WOWHead is wrong, Mind Control only works on Humanoids of up to Level 41...

Can anybody confirm?


Had a priest MCing Adepts in Vortex Pinnacle last night, and I'm reasonably sure they're higher than 41.
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Re: Who can CC what

Postby æ » Wed Dec 15, 2010 2:22 pm

Retribution paladin – Repentance: works on any mob except beasts; lasts 1m; 1m CD


Seeing how important elementals are in this expansion, this is a bit of an oversight. :lol:
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Re: Who can CC what

Postby æ » Wed Dec 15, 2010 2:43 pm

But it would be nice if there was a glyph for that..
Last edited by æ on Wed Dec 15, 2010 4:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Who can CC what

Postby bldavis » Wed Dec 15, 2010 4:07 pm

as far as cc that stops casting, just off the top of my head

Lock - Banish (elemental/demon), Seduce, Fear
Mage - Poly (humanoid/beast)
Priest - MC
Rogue - Sap
Druid - nada.... :(
Shammy - Bind elemental (elemental..duh) Hex
Hunter - Freezing trap, Wyvern Sting
DK - none that i can think of
Pally - Repentance
Warrior - Intimidating shout (cower/aoe fear... not the best)
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Re: Who can CC what

Postby Ojimaru » Wed Dec 15, 2010 7:03 pm

bldavis wrote:as far as cc that stops casting, just off the top of my head

Lock - Banish (elemental/demon), Seduce, Fear
Mage - Poly (humanoid/beast)
Priest - MC
Rogue - Sap
Druid - nada.... :(
Shammy - Bind elemental (elemental..duh) Hex
Hunter - Freezing trap, Wyvern Sting
DK - none that i can think of
Pally - Repentance
Warrior - Intimidating shout (cower/aoe fear... not the best)

Pally Hammer of Justice (with Improved Hammer of Justice for Stun-immune), as well as Avenger's Shield.
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Re: Who can CC what

Postby econ21 » Thu Dec 16, 2010 2:51 am

Ojimaru wrote:Pally Hammer of Justice (with Improved Hammer of Justice for Stun-immune), as well as Avenger's Shield.


Are you sure about this? Looking at wowhead, the tool tip and talent calculators do not mention interrupting and one of the comments says that no longer having an interrupt element makes the talent useless for PvE.

I am thinking of starting a "who can interrupt" thread, as interrupting big attacks seems crucial for some heroic boss fights. I was a little dismayed to find my shield being the best form of interrupt in a guild run (the mage and hunter interrupts had longer CDs). My hammer was not improved and did not work.
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Re: Who can CC what

Postby Goodheart » Thu Dec 16, 2010 3:15 am

Vindication now has that effect.
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Re: Who can CC what

Postby econ21 » Thu Dec 16, 2010 3:28 am

Goodheart wrote:Vindication now has that effect.


Interesting - I have that talent and got an "immune" message when I used my hammer to interrupt Lady Naz'jar. But maybe that just meant she was not stunned but was interrupted? My impression at the time was that she was not interrupted but maybe I was wrong (or slow with the hammer).

WTB warrior interrupt.
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Re: Who can CC what

Postby Goodheart » Thu Dec 16, 2010 3:41 am

Yes you do still get an immune message for the stun portion of HoJ, but it will still interrupt the spell. It kinda sucks though that it is on the global cooldown...
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Re: Who can CC what

Postby Flex » Thu Dec 16, 2010 11:53 am

econ21 wrote:
Goodheart wrote:Vindication now has that effect.


Interesting - I have that talent and got an "immune" message when I used my hammer to interrupt Lady Naz'jar. But maybe that just meant she was not stunned but was interrupted? My impression at the time was that she was not interrupted but maybe I was wrong (or slow with the hammer).

WTB warrior interrupt.


You would get two immune messages if she was immune to both the stun and the interrupt.
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Re: Who can CC what

Postby bldavis » Thu Dec 16, 2010 4:38 pm

warriors have shield slam or pummel for interrupts.....

and AS and HoJ arent CC
they are stuns/interrupts

repentance is a cc
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Re: Who can CC what

Postby econ21 » Fri Dec 17, 2010 1:31 am

Strangely, the human looking casters in normal Grim Batol were immune to Mind Control. Not sure why.
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Re: Who can CC what

Postby fudomyou » Fri Dec 17, 2010 4:01 pm

econ21 wrote:Strangely, the human looking casters in normal Grim Batol were immune to Mind Control. Not sure why.


Are you talking about the taller Ascended windwalkers/flamecasters/etc.? Those guys count as elementals. Otherwise, dunno.
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Re: Who can CC what

Postby Eltiana » Tue Dec 21, 2010 11:25 pm

bldavis wrote:as far as cc that stops casting, just off the top of my head

Lock - Banish (elemental/demon), Seduce, Fear
Mage - Poly (humanoid/beast)
Priest - MC
Rogue - Sap
Druid - nada.... :(
Shammy - Bind elemental (elemental..duh) Hex
Hunter - Freezing trap, Wyvern Sting
DK - none that i can think of
Pally - Repentance
Warrior - Intimidating shout (cower/aoe fear... not the best)
Druids do have Hibernate. Frost DKs have Hungering Cold though I know that barely counts as CC lol.
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Re: Who can CC what

Postby Invisusira » Tue Dec 21, 2010 11:36 pm

Eltiana wrote:Frost DKs have Hungering Cold though I know that barely counts as CC lol.

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Re: Who can CC what

Postby Arcand » Wed Dec 22, 2010 8:14 am

Eltiana wrote:Druids do have Hibernate. Frost DKs have Hungering Cold though I know that barely counts as CC lol.


Cyclone, too, if you've really got to interrupt a cast.

For that matter, the annoying moonkin knockback thing will stop a cast if you've got nothing else.
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Re: Who can CC what

Postby theothersteve7 » Wed Dec 22, 2010 11:28 am

I'd just like to note that Mind Control is frequently stupidly overpowered. I tank with my girlfriend priesting in the same room, so we have easy, rapid communication. Some things to note.

In Throne of the Tides, you can MC one murloc and watch as all the others in a pack blow their opening nuke on it. Then run in and tank the weakened result.

In Deadmines, mind controlling the casters allows you to buff party members with Renegade Strength.

In HoO, MCing the archers results in >10k dps by spamming "shoot".

The dryads in from of Ammunae can be made to cast Tranquility on the party. A special NPC Tranquility, which heals for about five times as much as normal.

The list goes on. I would expect a nerf if this were more widespread, but few seem to have caught on.

You can do other, more general tricks too. For instance, you can pull aggro on a dangerous mob and watch as they wail on each other. You can sometimes MC a mob that has gotten loose and entered the AoE. I don't know if this works anymore, but in Vortex Pinnacle she was MCing mobs and jumping them off the edge.

I highly recommend encouraging any priests you know to experiment. It's a lot of fun and can produce some impressive results.
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Re: Who can CC what

Postby Chicken » Sat Dec 25, 2010 8:50 am

Rogues can also glyph Sap to heavily increase it's duration with the Glyph of Sap; not sure how commonplace using that is though. Other classes I've noted can easily use such utility for their major glyphs though. Another interesting thing about Sap is that the Sapped mob is incapable of 'detecting' players, so if you have one outlying mob in a group of mobs, sapping him might allow you to skip the mobs entirely.

I've also had my glyphed Fear still pull mobs that patrol close to the Feared target; while they aren't running around drawing mobs to them, they do still "call for help" as a normal Fear does. Entangling Roots would also do so obviously, but with other forms of CC mobs can walk right on top of a CCed mob and not care in the slightest. Fear could also do with a listing of "Works on everything except undead" rather than "Works on nearly every mob". Obviously there's the occasional CC immune mob, but that's not listed for anything else either.
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Re: Who can CC what

Postby majiben » Sat Dec 25, 2010 9:20 pm

Turn evil might be worth mentioning. I've used it on occasion as it has a long duration. In Cata I've only used it in the sand wing of HoO and the Chaos boss wing but as long as you're making a master list, it's worth mentioning.
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