Failsafe gearing guide, 4.3

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Re: Failsafe gearing guide

Postby Aeldeth » Tue Dec 14, 2010 8:22 am

Goodheart wrote:They only offer a subset of those dailies each day, some are different each day. Also one more unlocks at revered.


I see, so it's a cross between Oracles and Hodir (sort of)? I like that.
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Re: Failsafe gearing guide

Postby econ21 » Tue Dec 14, 2010 8:24 am

I found my failsafe weapon - Ravening Slicer, 85 commendations, Tol Barad revered. Not a tank weapon although it does have agility, which is 0.6 dodge, and mastery. Sadly, it seems bottom of the list in Theckhd's threat comparisons.

After tomorrow's season opens, I may be targeting the PVP weapons too although I am vague on their accessibility and cost.
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Re: Failsafe gearing guide

Postby hrbngr » Fri Dec 17, 2010 4:54 pm

hello,

I was hoping to confirm this for rep grinding purposes. The L85 normal instances that give rep are Stonecore, Grim Batol and Halls of Origination?

I ask b/c the roics are d@mn hard at the moment for undergeared PUGs, but I researched extensively and Vortex Pinnacle and Throne of the Tides appear to be the two easiest roics if you need to do them.

A good strategy might be to join the random roic queue, and then run VP and/or Throne if they come up, otherwise leave queue and then spam LFG or trade for a group to run a normal, when u are done the "left the group timer" should be over, and you can re-try the random queue until u get the "easy" roic and consequently the 75 valor pointss!
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Re: Failsafe gearing guide

Postby econ21 » Sat Dec 18, 2010 2:57 am

hrbngr wrote:I was hoping to confirm this for rep grinding purposes. The L85 normal instances that give rep are Stonecore, Grim Batol and Halls of Origination?


Stonecore doesn't - maybe Lost City does?

...Vortex Pinnacle and Throne of the Tides appear to be the two easiest roics if you need to do them.


Throne was a big challenge in the first run for my guild, although we did it. Haven't been back so I don't know how much was just learning the fights and how much was genuinely difficult fights. Second time in Vortex Pinnacle did seem easy - the whirlwinds on the second boss were a shock first time.

A good strategy might be to join the random roic queue, and then run VP and/or Throne if they come up, otherwise leave queue ...


Well, it's your life but I find that behaviour (immediately quitting groups) in others annoying.
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Re: Failsafe gearing guide

Postby yappo » Sat Dec 18, 2010 5:23 am

Lost city adds rep on both normal and heroic.

I'm updating marginal data in the guide based on low sample, but it will have to do.
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Re: Failsafe gearing guide

Postby econ21 » Sat Dec 18, 2010 10:04 am

On what tabard to wear, it's partly a matter of how impatient you are. The problem with Ramkahen is that with no dailies to speak of, it could be slow grind to exalted by tabard alone and all you get along the way is a ring at revered, a slot with relatively few stats and for which there is half decent substitute. I decided to go for Wildhammer as the helm at revered has a meta-gem and with the dailies, you can grind the rep faster so I will get the boots a lot faster than I could have gotten the Ramkahen bracers.

Earthern ring rep largely takes care of itself if you start in Vashj'ir and don't skip Deepholm and TH. I wore the tabard for a couple of runs to get the arcanum then switched to Wildhammer.
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Re: Failsafe gearing guide

Postby yappo » Sat Dec 18, 2010 10:10 am

I advice against tabarding Therazane and Wildahammer/Darkmaw

Given daily quests awarding 1250+ rep daily I just can't advice anyone to pick those 30k rep needed for exalted by using the tabard as 25 days or less will see you exalted with those factions anyway.
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Re: Failsafe gearing guide

Postby hrbngr » Sat Dec 18, 2010 4:59 pm

econ21,
i know what you mean about leaving queues. More than likely, i'll run whatever roic is random just for the rep, and then leave if we are wiping too much due to comps or just general idiocy.

yappo,
i totally concur w/skipping the therazane tabard initially as u can get the lesser shoulders simply with questing then dailies to exalted. However, i disagree about the wildhammer rep. Even though there are dailies, the rep exalted boots are simply best in slot w/few alternatives--only (h)sfk really--so it's a little too irresistable to me! (YMMV)

After Hyjal is done (cloak), doing earthan ring to revered (2 instances tops) (head ench), wildhammer to exalted plus dailies, then coming back to ramkahen--mainly for the ring, as wrists are badly itemized for me at the moment and ill have exalted in plenty of time for when a threat set is mandatory for geared dps roic runs.

My main worry is that i'm going to pony up $10k+ for http://cata.wowhead.com/item=67145 It's a beautifully itemized piece of kit and I can't see replacing it any time soon...later on I can get the BS crafted shield for threat, ofc. With so many ppl questing, quite a lot of them are on the AH, vs a few months from now when there will be far less world drops, IMHO. It's the only piece of gear that I'm even considering purchasing.
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Re: Failsafe gearing guide

Postby yappo » Sat Dec 18, 2010 6:46 pm

hrbngr wrote:yappo,
i totally concur w/skipping the therazane tabard initially as u can get the lesser shoulders simply with questing then dailies to exalted. However, i disagree about the wildhammer rep. Even though there are dailies, the rep exalted boots are simply best in slot w/few alternatives--only (h)sfk really--so it's a little too irresistable to me! (YMMV)


Well, my 'duty' here is to write a failsafe guide. That means a pretty generic one covering the most efficient way to maximize your gear in the unlikely event you get zero drops. At the time being said guide has to be made on the assumption that the hypothetical tank is geared more or less according to the heroic failsafe (tank-level 2) guide and is honored with all factions.

The by far fastest way to brute force your way to exalted with all factions (minus Earthen Ring that only needs revered) is to dungeon Ramkahen and Hyjal (plus a few Earthen Ring runs) and daily quest Therazane and Wildhammer/Dragonmaw.

The guide is based on a hypothetical tank gearing from ready to run heroics to ready to raid in less than one month without NEEDING to chainrun instances. Add that a random heroic easily takes 1.5 hours these days when we're all struggling to gear up and we're facing a situation where the failsafe tank only has time to run one daily normal plus one daily heroic (switching that normal for a second heroic after week two or so). Thus we end up with a situation where we can't afford sitting with a faction that can no longer gain rep from comparatively time-efficient daily quests.
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Re: Failsafe gearing guide

Postby Shoju » Mon Dec 20, 2010 1:43 pm

First, Thanks Yappo for continuing your failsafe guides. I appreciate the work that you put into it.

I wrote up something very similar to this on my guild's website. I noticed a couple of differences between our lists and wanted to bring a couple of them up.

  • I personally do not think that Justice Point Shield is worth overlooking Twilight Mirrorshield- Quests : Twilight Highlands.

    You can have this shield within ~30-60 minutes of time in the zone (actually you end up going back to SW/Org to finish this quest, and unlock the zone), and you can put those JP's towards other items, and save the shield for once you are ready to roll into raids if you don't have a heroic shield yet.
  • The main reason that I am going with the rep order that I am (dragonmaw -> Ramkahen -> Hyjal -> ER/Therazane), is that the enchants, while an obvious marked improvement over the WotLK versions, are just not as noticable of an upgrade as the gear is.

    I also based it on personal experience to a degree. I didn't quest out any single zone before 85. I did Vash'jir (100 or so), Hyjal (to get the tabard), Deepholm (to unlock Therazane Tabard), Uldum (to unlock Ramkahen tabard), and then Highlands, while I was tanking dungeons. I think Priority #1 for a "non hardcore" tank is revered with their Highlands rep (dorfs or orcs). The JP helm wastes too much itemization on STR for my tastes.
  • There is only 1 other guaranteed tank trinket in cata quests, and i'm sure you left it off the list because of low ilvl, but it is Insignia of Diplomacy In deepholm for those who struggle getting tank trinkets.

  • I would suggest adding the chest piece from Grim Batol to the list as a pre-cursor to the JP Chest.
    Item Breastplate of the Witness - Quest - Grim Batol 5 man dungeon. While the JP piece is clearly superior, I think that the BP of the Witness is good enough to stand on your own until you get the JP piece.

Again, thanks for the list, wanted to toss a couple of things out there as intermediary pieces / stopgaps while working on other things. I think the big difference between your list and my list comes down to where they are looking to end up. I did mine mainly as a guide for those who are looking to get heroic ready, and yours is geared towards those looking to get into raids. With my guild not raiding for another 22 days, and most of my audience moving at a slower pace than most, there are obvious differences.
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Re: Failsafe gearing guide

Postby yappo » Tue Dec 21, 2010 2:12 am

Shoju wrote:First, Thanks Yappo for continuing your failsafe guides. I appreciate the work that you put into it.

I wrote up something very similar to this on my guild's website. I noticed a couple of differences between our lists and wanted to bring a couple of them up.

  • I personally do not think that Justice Point Shield is worth overlooking Twilight Mirrorshield- Quests : Twilight Highlands.

    You can have this shield within ~30-60 minutes of time in the zone (actually you end up going back to SW/Org to finish this quest, and unlock the zone), and you can put those JP's towards other items, and save the shield for once you are ready to roll into raids if you don't have a heroic shield yet.
  • The main reason that I am going with the rep order that I am (dragonmaw -> Ramkahen -> Hyjal -> ER/Therazane), is that the enchants, while an obvious marked improvement over the WotLK versions, are just not as noticable of an upgrade as the gear is.

    I also based it on personal experience to a degree. I didn't quest out any single zone before 85. I did Vash'jir (100 or so), Hyjal (to get the tabard), Deepholm (to unlock Therazane Tabard), Uldum (to unlock Ramkahen tabard), and then Highlands, while I was tanking dungeons. I think Priority #1 for a "non hardcore" tank is revered with their Highlands rep (dorfs or orcs). The JP helm wastes too much itemization on STR for my tastes.
  • There is only 1 other guaranteed tank trinket in cata quests, and i'm sure you left it off the list because of low ilvl, but it is Insignia of Diplomacy In deepholm for those who struggle getting tank trinkets.

  • I would suggest adding the chest piece from Grim Batol to the list as a pre-cursor to the JP Chest.
    Item Breastplate of the Witness - Quest - Grim Batol 5 man dungeon. While the JP piece is clearly superior, I think that the BP of the Witness is good enough to stand on your own until you get the JP piece.

Again, thanks for the list, wanted to toss a couple of things out there as intermediary pieces / stopgaps while working on other things. I think the big difference between your list and my list comes down to where they are looking to end up. I did mine mainly as a guide for those who are looking to get heroic ready, and yours is geared towards those looking to get into raids. With my guild not raiding for another 22 days, and most of my audience moving at a slower pace than most, there are obvious differences.


I am personally geared with the Twilight Mirror Shield, which goes to show I'm still having the living hell beaten out of me on heroics.

You (as in all readers of this list) have to keep in mind that it's being designed from a point of view that is indeed more progressed than I personally am.

I'm assuming that the reader of ths list (today or in a month's time) is already clad for heroics.

I'm also adamant that the price/performance curve for gaining rep rewards finishing all zones as far as quests go, and that, in turn, will leave the tank honored with all factions, not to speak of geared in all available quest-rewards.

Based on the above 'rules' you either already have access to the Earthen Ring head-chant, or need a very minor dungeon-run to get revered, and you're honored with Therazane, giving you access to the minor shoulder enchant.

As long as we agree that this is correct, then it remains to gear for raids, for which this list is supposed to help if RNG screws you over.

Less than one month will see you exalted with Therazane, so just leave that tabard aside (apart from tabard-achievement).

We're thus left with Hyjal, Uldum and Highlands rep to clear out. My argument for hitting the Hyjal/Uldum facts with a tabard is that you gain rep with Highlands from daily quests.

Being heroics ready (and actually running heroics to get geared for raids) you're supposed to ramp up JP at an alarming rate (which I personally am not). I would expect one JP piece per week seems reasonable.

Thanks, however, for valuable input. It shows how and whyI need to be clearer in the guide. I'll make changes to it in order to rectify those weaknesses.
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Re: Failsafe gearing guide

Postby econ21 » Tue Dec 21, 2010 3:00 am

I've completed only four heroics and figure I am now raid ready - average item level 346. One does not need to grind a lot of JPs to get to that position. I think only four of my slots are filled with JP items. It seems different from late stage wotlk, I guess because the heroics dungeon drops and some reputation items are as good as, or better, than the JP items. But that cap of 4000 JPs carried forward from Wotlk was a big blessing that players won't have in future.

Having attained exalted with Wildhammer and facing the uphill climb with Ramkahen I now fully agree with your rep recommendation. Indeed it saddens me that I no longer need to do the Wildhammer quests - there are few things more fun in WoW than flying while under the influence of Dwarven ale.
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Re: Failsafe gearing guide

Postby Shoju » Tue Dec 21, 2010 7:35 am

yappo wrote:I am personally geared with the Twilight Mirror Shield, which goes to show I'm still having the living hell beaten out of me on heroics.

You (as in all readers of this list) have to keep in mind that it's being designed from a point of view that is indeed more progressed than I personally am.

I'm assuming that the reader of ths list (today or in a month's time) is already clad for heroics.

I'm also adamant that the price/performance curve for gaining rep rewards finishing all zones as far as quests go, and that, in turn, will leave the tank honored with all factions, not to speak of geared in all available quest-rewards.

Based on the above 'rules' you either already have access to the Earthen Ring head-chant, or need a very minor dungeon-run to get revered, and you're honored with Therazane, giving you access to the minor shoulder enchant.

As long as we agree that this is correct, then it remains to gear for raids, for which this list is supposed to help if RNG screws you over.

Less than one month will see you exalted with Therazane, so just leave that tabard aside (apart from tabard-achievement).

We're thus left with Hyjal, Uldum and Highlands rep to clear out. My argument for hitting the Hyjal/Uldum facts with a tabard is that you gain rep with Highlands from daily quests.

Being heroics ready (and actually running heroics to get geared for raids) you're supposed to ramp up JP at an alarming rate (which I personally am not). I would expect one JP piece per week seems reasonable.

Thanks, however, for valuable input. It shows how and whyI need to be clearer in the guide. I'll make changes to it in order to rectify those weaknesses.



I figured that it was a difference of intended audience for the most part, though I don't know if I follow you on

I'm also adamant that the price/performance curve for gaining rep rewards finishing all zones as far as quests go, and that, in turn, will leave the tank honored with all factions, not to speak of geared in all available quest-rewards.


Are you saying that you expect people to have quested out all zones before they are ready for your guide / heroics? I don't see that many people who quest out entire zones (especially tanks) when they are moving on and leveling. I went back and checked. At the time of hitting 85, I had done

Vash'jir - 106
Hyjal - 16
Deepholm - 84
Uldum - 34
Highlands - ~50 I was questing in Highlands when I hit 85.

Because I went to Vash'jir, and was tanking dungeons while I leveled, I never went to Hyjal. I didn't go to hyjal until i was ready to move on to deepholm, and decided I would get the tabard on the way. I was 84 when I left deepholm, and moved to Uldum to get the tabard, and then stuck around leveling there while waiting on a guild group to get ready so that I could summon them to Lost City.

I think expecting people to be honored with all factions is an unrealistic expectation. Especially for a tank. I could be wrong, and if I am, I will retract my statement.

If I would have stayed in a zone and quested it out completely before moving to another zone, I would have been further behind on Ramkahen, Hyjal, and Highlands rep, as I would have leveled to 85 somewhere in Deepholm due to dungeon runs. I also would be lacking several quest rewards from higher level content, because of this.

I personally feel that maximizing your upgrade potential is the best way to work the tabards, even at heroic running levels. Especially when the Exalted level reputation piece is not just a 359 epic, but on par / better than 359 raid drops. In the case of both the boots from the highlands rep, and the bracers from Ramkahen, These are both on par with drops from T11 content, in the issue of the bracers, they are the only alternative to a single pair of tank bracers in Raid Content.

As far as being close on the Earthen Ring Reputation, Remember that some people quested before the earthen ring reputation hotfix in Vash'jir, and we were not compensated for our lost rep.
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Re: Failsafe gearing guide

Postby Flex » Tue Dec 21, 2010 10:09 am

Shoju wrote:I think expecting people to be honored with all factions is an unrealistic expectation. Especially for a tank. I could be wrong, and if I am, I will retract my statement.


It is not "questing out the zone" but finishing the quests for that faction.

- Not doing Vashj'ir and starting at Hyjal you will get Revered with Guardians of Hyjal from questing alone. Every quest there gives rep for them.
- You should hit honored with both Earthen Ring and Therazane from Deepholm, testing out Earthen Ring on my other paladin at the moment as she did not do Vashj'ir.
- Just doing the basic Cat People quests in Uldum will get you honored.
- Questing out your faction in TH will get you Honored with them quite easily.

If you're planning out the best path to get geared as a tank you will plan out the best Rep from Questing path which basically means Hyjal and Earthen Ring to honored for the two pieces there, Therazane to Honored/Revered depending on race, Wildhammer to Revered, and Cat people to whatever from questing, the ring at revered is dripping with mastery.
We live in a society where people born on third base constantly try to steal second, yet we expect people born with two strikes against them to hit a homerun on the first pitch.
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Re: Failsafe gearing guide

Postby yappo » Tue Dec 21, 2010 2:45 pm

Combined answer to both of you.

As far as the repis concerned, yes, that honoured part is a baseline coming from padding out all the rep you can from regular questing. This simply because it's extremely time-efficient.

If you're hitting 85 before you reach honored with everyone really doesn't matter all that much. You'll start out with your dailies but should consider the remaning normal quests as additional 'dailies' available for you.

Then, I WOULD recommend questing out the zones anyway. The reason for this is two-fold. However, none of them, arguably, has much to do with this failsafe guide.

1) You're part of a 10-man raiding guild. Until your guild hit guild-level 25 you should help padding out the guild-xp needed not to fall too far behind larger guilds.

2) The gold gained from finishing the quests is simply astonishing for any player not used to playing the AH.

I have an extra toon just for handling the AH. Nothing fancy, but enough to set me up with around 30k gold after paying for 310 riding. I was originally planning to use the 25k (out of that 30) sitting on my bank-toon for making certain my main never suffered from wanting blacksmithing and/or BoE but being unable to pay for it. I haven't even attempted to start running the AH during Cataclysm, but my main still has 3k gold left after buying materials and BoE for well in excess of 15k gold. Note that my tanking main effectively PAYS for each and every dungeon he runs (less now than earlier) due to punative repair-costs for handling wipes.
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