Prot Paladin TPS vs Fury Warior TPS? Broken?

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Prot Paladin TPS vs Fury Warior TPS? Broken?

Postby Lutinja » Wed Dec 15, 2010 9:33 pm

So we've started raiding, nothing downed yet, but that will come around soon enough.

My question is regarding threat. None of us are probably fully geared gemmed and enchanted and what not that we were back in wrath, i know that i personally have horrible hit and expertise (round 5% hit and 13 expertise) but my threat is fine in most cases!

The DK we have is at most around 70% of my threat and i can keep healing myself with my WoG most of the time without any problems what so ever. All other classes except one have half the DK's threat.

The problem is a Fury Warrior with Titans grip, his threat is INSANE, even when pulling every holy power i generate into threat he passes me and needs to stop and stand still a for quite some time just to not overaggro a raid boss. And not only in the start of the fight, but the whole way through!

Do other tanks have the same issue? I'd rather use my WoG then ShotR for threat because of the mana issues healers have and fierce content atm. But warriors, they sure are making me work for it....

Is this something that is a result of my low threat stats? But what could be the reason for ONLY this warrior being so high on threat? He's usually 2-3k DPS below the DK with half his threat (that is frost DW)

Is this a broken mechanic or am i stuck with a Warrior that doesn't play WoW or recount, but Omen?

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Re: Prot Paladin TPS vs Fury Warior TPS? Broken?

Postby DJSticky » Wed Dec 15, 2010 11:20 pm

It would be very helpful if you could post your armory link as well as the link to the warrior in question.

Without seeing that I can only speculate. I presume you are talking about threat on raid bosses? I have most likely the worst hit and expertise in the universe (reforged it all mastery) and even when I miss my first ShoTR I don't have much of a threat concern on raid bosses. This is even using WoG after the second or third ShoTR. I do have people creep up and some times pass me in heroics so I believe that vengeance is at play here.

I also assume you start with Plea, AW, AS, Judge ShoTR.

If he is over aggroing you throughout the entire fight I would have to think there is a big difference in your gear or his rotation is perfect and yours is the exact opposite of what it needs to be. No offense just thinking of possibilities because for me threat is the least of my worries at the moment.


Just read the bit about him doing less DPS then the DK. Are you talking about one certain boss fight? If so which one? When you say less DPS do you mean DPS done to the mob you are tanking or over all in the encounter?

Sorry for all the questions but we will really need more specifics to definitively answer your question, in fact if your guild uses World of Logs a link to an example raid night would be fantastic!
Last edited by DJSticky on Wed Dec 15, 2010 11:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Prot Paladin TPS vs Fury Warior TPS? Broken?

Postby Finkum » Wed Dec 15, 2010 11:21 pm

As far as I am aware since 4.01 all DPS classes generate 1 point of threat per 1 damage done (i.e. they removed all the X% threat reduction modifiers), and possibly some small extra threat from resource generation. There are still a handful of abilities that casuse additional threat (Heroic Throw/Sunder Armor), but even if this warrior is the 'Sunder bitch' s/he shouldn't be using them nearly often enough to be causing threat issues.

It should be literally impossible for the warrior to be pulling higher threat, but significantly lower DPS, than your DK, unless he is in Defensive Stance or doing weird things like spamming Sunder Armor all fight long.
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Re: Prot Paladin TPS vs Fury Warior TPS? Broken?

Postby Lutinja » Thu Dec 16, 2010 6:57 am

Thx for the reply, i'll fill out the blanks now.

The warrior: ... ten/simple

Me ... nja/simple

The DK ... iel/simple

This is Raid bosses. So far we have done Omnitron Defense system and Halfas Wyrmbreaker. Both encounters, throughout the whole fight he has been right behind me on threat

I open with CS-AS-CS-J-CS-AW-ShoR-DP-ShoR, this way, i get three Shor with AW on. But still he passes me. I'll try and get a world of logs logg. I have also tried popping AW at start, same result. Even when he waits for after the first shield, same result.

When it comes to the threat issue about sunder armor. I did notice he has heroic throw glyphed that applies sunder armor. And i also heard warriors have a heroic throw glyph that removes the threat generated from it?
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Re: Prot Paladin TPS vs Fury Warior TPS? Broken?

Postby sculder » Thu Dec 16, 2010 7:25 am

I have 2 fury warrior in my raid who have consistently ranked top 10 in dps on many fights on world of logs, so i can feel your pain. I do not usually have them pulling threat off of me unless it's a newly spawned add that we switch to quickly. As a reference point, they both pulled ~31k on wyrmbreaker, I pulled ~21k.

Luckily for me they are intelligent and know when to use cds effectively and how not to pull aggro. If you have tricks and/or MD in your raid you should be fine on initial threat, but this opens up a problem in the way the new tricks works. TotT's threat boost is temporary and wears off after 30 sec. The damage buff also does _not_ stack with wings. For these reasons, I generally wait until at least my second or third shield slam to pop wings (when the TotT +dmg is gone, censure is stacked, and I have a good amount of vengeance).

The only other thing I can recommend is to use your hand of salvation(s) on them. You might also consider glyphing it and using it on the initial pull, if that work better for you.

edit: our wyrmbreaker logs, if you want to check them out.
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Re: Prot Paladin TPS vs Fury Warior TPS? Broken?

Postby Lutinja » Thu Dec 16, 2010 10:28 am

Oh Wings and ToT don't stack? That i did not know! Thx for the info, I'll also check out the salv glyph
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Re: Prot Paladin TPS vs Fury Warior TPS? Broken?

Postby Gavel » Fri Dec 17, 2010 9:40 am

Tell him to blow all his cooldowns, then BoP him. Problem solved! :lol:
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