0/31/10, does this work at all?

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0/31/10, does this work at all?

Postby Elvrithshal » Sun Dec 12, 2010 8:05 am

I had this interesting (at least to me) build that I came across while sorting out some talents for myself. Has anyone tested this and what do they think of it?

http://www.wowhead.com/talent#sZhrhfRzdRkucbG

Obviously Pursuit of Justice for the movement speed increase (which I like very much) and Rule of Law for the imba 15% crit increase for CS, HOR and WOG which I have boosted with other talents as well, a massive heal in middle of a fight with two proccing chances seems very good with the current situation in HCs (healer-tank pairs struggling in boss fights) and which might save one DPS if he gets hit by eg. Blitz by General at GB, and similar things.

I would appreciate some feedback :-)
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Re: 0/31/10, does this work at all?

Postby theckhd » Sun Dec 12, 2010 10:08 am

It's a pretty standard WoG build, though with an AoE focus due to Hallowed Ground. The only weird thing is the 1/2 commitment in Sacred Duty. To me, that talent is an all-or-nothing sort of deal. If you're casting SotR enough to want one point in it, you'd probably want both.

I also don't think Hallowed Ground is necessary, and a two point investment seems overkill to me, but I can see how players who haven't yet adjusted to properly managing their mana could find it attractive.
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Re: 0/31/10, does this work at all?

Postby d503 » Sun Dec 12, 2010 2:08 pm

Yes, mana is pretty precious at 85. I've noticed that a poorly timed Consecrate or Holy Radiance definitely sets me to the oom-o-meter...that being said, Consecrate hits for SO LITTLE, I just don't use it. I simply use holy wrath to get large packs' attention, and then HotR. Hammer is so friggin' powerful an AOE effect, that it kinda just dwarfs consecrate. In fact, I'm not sure why it even exists, anymore (cons)...it never had snap aggro, which hammer does, and it doesn't contribute that heavily to AOE threat over time to make it a NECESSITY.

At this point, it's basically off my bars.
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Re: 0/31/10, does this work at all?

Postby Koatanga » Sun Dec 12, 2010 2:36 pm

I use consecrate for LoS pulls. I place it where they have to pass over it before they round the corner just to remind them who they are coming to visit, and so that they aren't distracted by someone casting a buff or some such.
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Re: 0/31/10, does this work at all?

Postby Gaxby » Mon Dec 13, 2010 11:14 am

I used to spec 2/2 Hallowed Ground and spam Consecration all the time, until I realized I can tank just as well without it. HotR and HW are more than enough to keep AoE threat. Once you adjust to rarely using Consecration, Hallow Ground's usefulness goes out the window.

Take Reckoning over Hallow Ground. Yes I know it's against only one target, but it procs even more when AoE tanking. Check out Theck's MATLAB too.
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Re: 0/31/10, does this work at all?

Postby Shoju » Thu Dec 16, 2010 11:15 am

I still have 1/2 Hallowed Ground, but I'm pretty confident that as my gear improves I will be dropping it, and not worrying about consecration as a "standard" rotation ability.
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Re: 0/31/10, does this work at all?

Postby Njall » Thu Dec 16, 2010 11:17 am

Shoju wrote:I still have 1/2 Hallowed Ground, but I'm pretty confident that as my gear improves I will be dropping it, and not worrying about consecration as a "standard" rotation ability.



I'm pretty much using it as "flypaper" in group pulls - especially ones with staggered arrival times like in Vortex Pinnacle. I'll probably respec out of it though.
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Re: 0/31/10, does this work at all?

Postby PhoR » Thu Dec 16, 2010 4:10 pm

d503 wrote:...that being said, Consecrate hits for SO LITTLE, I just don't use it. I simply use holy wrath to get large packs' attention...

This confuses me.
Consecrate does more damage per target than HW with only 2 targets.
3 or more targets and Cons does a lot more damage/threat than HW, even if every bolt crits, and it costs over 1000 mana less than HW with 2/2 HG.

I understand the argument that if you don't NEED to use cons to keep aoe threat, then you can use those 2 talent points elsewhere and basically ignore Cons.

But the way you explain it makes people think that using HG and Cons is actually bad for AoE threat.
When in fact it's not only more AoE threat, but costs less mana if you take 2/2 HG and use Cons > HW when tanking more than one mob.
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Re: 0/31/10, does this work at all?

Postby d503 » Thu Dec 16, 2010 5:28 pm

PhoR wrote:
d503 wrote:...that being said, Consecrate hits for SO LITTLE, I just don't use it. I simply use holy wrath to get large packs' attention...

This confuses me.
Consecrate does more damage per target than HW with only 2 targets.
3 or more targets and Cons does a lot more damage/threat than HW, even if every bolt crits, and it costs over 1000 mana less than HW with 2/2 HG.

I understand the argument that if you don't NEED to use cons to keep aoe threat, then you can use those 2 talent points elsewhere and basically ignore Cons.

But the way you explain it makes people think that using HG and Cons is actually bad for AoE threat.
When in fact it's not only more AoE threat, but costs less mana if you take 2/2 HG and use Cons > HW when tanking more than one mob.


Here's an example:

Last boss of Stonecore I'll use HotR to pick up the first pack of adds during the flight phase, and Holy Wrath to pick up the second pack, and follow that all up with another HotR to solidify aggro. That way I don't have to worry about positioning them in my consecrate, or the mana expenditure.

I don't get HG mostly because of the threat cost for other talents, since consecration is situational, and somewhat marginalized by how HotR works.

Again, my opinion, not fact.

At this point, the only thing I'm allowing to sacrifice my major threat generators is preservation and healing talents. I'm trying out a spec that not only includes both WoG talents, but also PotI from the holy tree. I find that 6-8k self healing when sniping other WoG heals is very useful.
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Re: 0/31/10, does this work at all?

Postby PhoR » Thu Dec 16, 2010 8:03 pm

I've been wanting to try out 3/3 PotI and spam 1 HP WoG on a secondary target along with using seal and glyph of insight to see just how much self healing is possible.
On paper it seems like it could potentially be quite a bit higher than normal 3HP WoG usage.
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Re: 0/31/10, does this work at all?

Postby Gavel » Mon Dec 20, 2010 1:40 pm

Koatanga wrote:I use consecrate for LoS pulls. I place it where they have to pass over it before they round the corner just to remind them who they are coming to visit, and so that they aren't distracted by someone casting a buff or some such.


This was my preferred usage back when consecrate was affordable mana-wise. I cringe every time I drop consecrate now even if mobs are standing on it, I can't imagine dropping it solely for 1 tick as they pass through it.
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Re: 0/31/10, does this work at all?

Postby Treck » Thu Dec 30, 2010 8:12 am

PhoR wrote:
d503 wrote:...that being said, Consecrate hits for SO LITTLE, I just don't use it. I simply use holy wrath to get large packs' attention...

This confuses me.
Consecrate does more damage per target than HW with only 2 targets.
3 or more targets and Cons does a lot more damage/threat than HW, even if every bolt crits, and it costs over 1000 mana less than HW with 2/2 HG.

But the way you explain it makes people think that using HG and Cons is actually bad for AoE threat.


While HW is "better" than Consecrate to get mobs attention, thats really all it does, it doesnt sustain threat in any way. But Hammer will do a lot more than get mobs attention and on a shorter CD.
And HW is even doing less dmg than judgement, making HW one of your worst abilities to use dmgwise when theres a pack of mobs.
Granted HW will do a tiny bit of damage to all mobs, judgement or smth similar will only do more dmg to a sinle mob, but aoethreat is FAR from close enough that you would want a tiny ammount of threat on one thing.
99% of the times you got such an insane threatlead on all mobs but one or 2 that someone might be singletarget dpsing, thus its going to be more needed to use some single target threat move on those to make sure all stay on you.
The ammount of fights that have aoecomponents in cata are many, and HW really fades in comparison for Cons for multiple targets, id say it deserves a LOT more than people saying its useless and/or taking it off their bars.
Id remove my HW from my bars WAY WAY before i even consider removing Consecration.

If Hallowed Ground is worth it or not is another topic, personally i recommend it if you ever wanna be able to help out with holy radiance once in a while and aoetank at the same time.
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Re: 0/31/10, does this work at all?

Postby bads » Mon Jan 03, 2011 5:27 pm

Overall I think people are being excessively dismissive of consecration here. Obviously it isn't an ability we use as part of our rotation on cooldown any longer. However, it is certainly still very effective in AoE situations. Furthermore, as Treck pointed out, holy wrath is fairly terrible AoE damage/threat and we really don't have many other abilities to fill the 9s slot. The dpc of an inquisitioned consecration even trumps that of avenger's shield when fighting 4+ mobs.

Using consecration should be a no brainer on large trash pulls (hooray 40k dps!) and given serious consideration on boss fights with more than 1 add to cleave.
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Re: 0/31/10, does this work at all?

Postby d503 » Tue Jan 04, 2011 2:24 am

Treck wrote:
PhoR wrote:
d503 wrote:...that being said, Consecrate hits for SO LITTLE, I just don't use it. I simply use holy wrath to get large packs' attention...

This confuses me.
Consecrate does more damage per target than HW with only 2 targets.
3 or more targets and Cons does a lot more damage/threat than HW, even if every bolt crits, and it costs over 1000 mana less than HW with 2/2 HG.

But the way you explain it makes people think that using HG and Cons is actually bad for AoE threat.


While HW is "better" than Consecrate to get mobs attention, thats really all it does, it doesnt sustain threat in any way. But Hammer will do a lot more than get mobs attention and on a shorter CD.
And HW is even doing less dmg than judgement, making HW one of your worst abilities to use dmgwise when theres a pack of mobs.
Granted HW will do a tiny bit of damage to all mobs, judgement or smth similar will only do more dmg to a sinle mob, but aoethreat is FAR from close enough that you would want a tiny ammount of threat on one thing.
99% of the times you got such an insane threatlead on all mobs but one or 2 that someone might be singletarget dpsing, thus its going to be more needed to use some single target threat move on those to make sure all stay on you.
The ammount of fights that have aoecomponents in cata are many, and HW really fades in comparison for Cons for multiple targets, id say it deserves a LOT more than people saying its useless and/or taking it off their bars.
Id remove my HW from my bars WAY WAY before i even consider removing Consecration.

If Hallowed Ground is worth it or not is another topic, personally i recommend it if you ever wanna be able to help out with holy radiance once in a while and aoetank at the same time.


I mostly like Holy Wrath to grab attention because it's omnidirectional, and it doesn't requiring having anything targeted. If you have to hammer something, you need it targeted, and you need to be facing it. If you use consecrate, they need to be running in/through it.

Holy Wrath is just convenient to get them to face you, and then I hit them with HotR.

Just personal preference, I guess. Threat is enough of a joke that I don't feel that my usage/reliance on it is a hindrance to guild/dungeon progression.
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Re: 0/31/10, does this work at all?

Postby Aurzon » Fri Jan 07, 2011 6:10 am

d503 wrote:I mostly like Holy Wrath to grab attention because it's omnidirectional, and it doesn't requiring having anything targeted. If you have to hammer something, you need it targeted, and you need to be facing it. If you use consecrate, they need to be running in/through it.

Holy Wrath is just convenient to get them to face you, and then I hit them with HotR.


Holy Wrath AND Consecration are BOTH omnidirectional and not target-reliant. The only differences are that Holy Wrath has a 10 yard radius versus Consecration's 8 yards, and that Holy Wrath is instant damage versus Consecration's damage over time. But, IIRC, Consecration deals its first tick of damage instantly, so both HW and Cons are instant damage in that essence. It's just that HW frontloads everything it's got, while Cons shares the love over time.

In response to OP, that build can work very well, but if you're looking for raid tanking, I would HIGHLY suggest that second point in Sacred Duty. I haven't even started raiding yet, and that talent's usage in dungeons has EASILY become my most favorite proc ever. If you are planning on running the build you linked, I'd drop a point out of Rule of Law for it. It's very worth it.

If you're interested, here's the build I'm currently running. http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/d ... nt/primary I'm currently running heroic dungeons on a daily basis farming more purples for raids which we just started this week. I am contemplating tweaking it to go less on threat, and more towards mitigation, as Vengeance makes tank threat easy as pie. The only thing I'm really contemplating dropping right now is Seals of the Pure for Eternal Glory. It really won't affect me either way how. My DPS is 7k on Argaloth 10 man, which I am way too fond to drop at a whim, but at the same time, I use Word of Glory a LOT in dungeons if my healer isn't very mana-efficient (to be nice about the affair), and the chance of being able to chain those things would be a dream.

One of the things on my list NOT to drop, however, is Hallowed Ground. Hallowed Ground makes for a perfect "Oh S---!" button (no idea if I can curse on here or not, so opted safe vs sorry). See, plans aren't always executed perfectly. Sometimes, the extra pack of mobs gets pulled (Corridor between Slabhide and Ozruk in Stonecore, anyone?), and you need that extra oomph to hold on to everything. Also, seeing as mobs have different run times or simply run in AT different times (much like the packs during the High Priestess Azil encounter in Stonecore), that makes having a 10 second AOE DOT much more valuable than an instant AOE. So, in essence, I guess you would call Hallowed Ground situational, but I'm one of those tanks that likes to be prepared for anything to go wrong, and much more often than not, it pays off for me.

In a nutshell, no one can ultimately tell you what build is best, because each tanks has variations and tweaks to the ways they play, that everyone needs to grab different talents. My one suggestion is to not focus heavily on your output however. After a good 10 seconds into any boss fight, I can take a peak at Omen and see I'm easily 100K threat (if not much more) ahead of anyone else. Between Vengeange, Misdirection/Tricks of the Trade, Hand of Reckoning/Righteous Defense, Avenging Wrath, getting to start the fight with a Divine Plea/Shield of the Righteous combo, and having the DPS just wait 3-5 seconds before starting, aggro should almost never be a problem. (If that does turn out to be a problem for you, my suggestion for pulling is while at range, Avenging Wrath, Avenger's Shield, Judgement, Divine Plea, Shield of the Righteous, then go into normal rotation. With that, initial threat is never a problem for me.)

P.S. LOL at my spellcheck for saying that "spellcheck" is not a real word, while meanwhile "oomph" is. :lol:
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