Basic Training 101: The Attack Table

How to get started.

Moderators: Fridmarr, Worldie, Aergis, lythac

Re: Basic Training 101: The Attack Table

Postby theckhd » Wed Oct 06, 2010 7:23 am

I intend to keep it current for Cataclysm, though it won't take that much of a rewrite. Right now I'm focusing on the MATLAB code, so it will be at least a few weeks before I have time to update it.

If you want to un-sticky it that's fine. I think it's a useful reference document, but it's also linked under the "Guides" menu.
"Theck, Bringer of Numbers and Pounding Headaches," courtesy of Grehn|Skipjack.
Simcraft 6.x, Call to Arms 6.0, Talent Spec & Glyph Guide 6.x, Blog: Sacred Duty
User avatar
theckhd
Moderator
 
Posts: 8003
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:06 pm
Location: Harrisburg, PA

Re: Basic Training 101: The Attack Table

Postby tobinbereznak » Mon Oct 18, 2010 7:10 pm

I modified a version of the Block Cap macro I was using in 3.x to work for 4.0:

/run ChatFrame1:AddMessage(format("Unhittable at 102.4%% - you have %.2f%%", GetDodgeChance() + GetBlockChance() + GetParryChance() + 5))
Penji on Mal'Ganis
tobinbereznak
 
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu Nov 19, 2009 11:11 am

Re: Basic Training 101: The Attack Table

Postby Chicken » Tue Oct 19, 2010 3:32 am

tobinbereznak wrote:I modified a version of the Block Cap macro I was using in 3.x to work for 4.0:

/run ChatFrame1:AddMessage(format("Unhittable at 102.4%% - you have %.2f%%", GetDodgeChance() + GetBlockChance() + GetParryChance() + 5))
You can change the +5 into +20 (Or just add a separate +15) so it'll include Holy Shield as well.
Image
User avatar
Chicken
 
Posts: 1597
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 2:19 pm

Re: Basic Training 101: The Attack Table

Postby theckhd » Wed Dec 15, 2010 8:21 am

Updated for Cataclysm. Let me know if I missed anything.
"Theck, Bringer of Numbers and Pounding Headaches," courtesy of Grehn|Skipjack.
Simcraft 6.x, Call to Arms 6.0, Talent Spec & Glyph Guide 6.x, Blog: Sacred Duty
User avatar
theckhd
Moderator
 
Posts: 8003
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:06 pm
Location: Harrisburg, PA

Re: Basic Training 101: The Attack Table

Postby Aerron » Wed Dec 15, 2010 9:23 am

With the changes Blizz has made to the Weapon Skill mechanics, is the following still true?

For each level above 80, the boss gains 5 weapon skill, granting him an additional 0.2% chance to crit and reducing the chance for his target to avoid or block an attack by 0.2%.


Sorry if this is obvious, I'm back to the game after a long absence and relearning everything.
Aerron
 
Posts: 475
Joined: Sat Oct 13, 2007 6:33 pm
Location: Richmond, VA

Re: Basic Training 101: The Attack Table

Postby theckhd » Wed Dec 15, 2010 1:12 pm

Aside from the obvious typo there (80 should be 85), yes. As far as I know, the attack table still functions exactly the way it did, including the boss reductions on dodge, parry, block, and miss. I haven't seen any empirical evidence to the contrary yet.

While the Defense and Weapon Skill stats have been removed from the game as far as the players are concerned, they probably still exist in the game code in some form. In all likelihood, they just took them out as independent stats and tied them directly to level (i.e. weapon_skill=5*level). Since they were redundant to the player at that point, they got axed from the UI.

However, in the end, whether the weapon skill system still exists or not is irrelevant now that it's tied to level, and probably unnecessary for a beginner's guide like this one. I've taken out any mention of weapon or defense skill in the main section of the article for now. If we find that in later tiers of content they tweak bosses in a way that indicates the weapon skill system is still hiding behind the curtain, I'll just update the guide accordingly.
"Theck, Bringer of Numbers and Pounding Headaches," courtesy of Grehn|Skipjack.
Simcraft 6.x, Call to Arms 6.0, Talent Spec & Glyph Guide 6.x, Blog: Sacred Duty
User avatar
theckhd
Moderator
 
Posts: 8003
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:06 pm
Location: Harrisburg, PA

Re: Basic Training 101: The Attack Table

Postby æ » Wed Dec 15, 2010 3:31 pm

Chicken wrote:
tobinbereznak wrote:I modified a version of the Block Cap macro I was using in 3.x to work for 4.0:

/run ChatFrame1:AddMessage(format("Unhittable at 102.4%% - you have %.2f%%", GetDodgeChance() + GetBlockChance() + GetParryChance() + 5))
You can change the +5 into +20 (Or just add a separate +15) so it'll include Holy Shield as well.


This isnt taking DR into account is it?

Can someone verify if I did this accurately? Made it real fast and need more eyes lookn.
/run dr=function(x)return 1/(1/65.63144+0.9560/x)end;DEFAULT_CHAT_FRAME:AddMessage("Need 102.4 - Currently at: "..string.format("%.2f", dr(GetDodgeChance())+GetBlockChance()+dr(GetParryChance())+5))
10 SIN
20 GOTO HELL
User avatar
æ
 
Posts: 213
Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2008 8:02 pm
Location: Santa Barbara

Re: Basic Training 101: The Attack Table

Postby theckhd » Thu Dec 16, 2010 6:52 am

GetDodgeChance() and GetParryChance() already take into account diminishing returns, as do the percentages listed on your character sheet. Your macro would be applying a second round of Diminishing returns to them.
"Theck, Bringer of Numbers and Pounding Headaches," courtesy of Grehn|Skipjack.
Simcraft 6.x, Call to Arms 6.0, Talent Spec & Glyph Guide 6.x, Blog: Sacred Duty
User avatar
theckhd
Moderator
 
Posts: 8003
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:06 pm
Location: Harrisburg, PA

Re: Basic Training 101: The Attack Table

Postby æ » Thu Dec 16, 2010 7:47 am

theckhd wrote:GetDodgeChance() and GetParryChance() already take into account diminishing returns, as do the percentages listed on your character sheet. Your macro would be applying a second round of Diminishing returns to them.


Really? Right under on the tooltip on both it says "(Before diminishing returns)" after the number it gives.. Urg so misleading!
10 SIN
20 GOTO HELL
User avatar
æ
 
Posts: 213
Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2008 8:02 pm
Location: Santa Barbara

Re: Basic Training 101: The Attack Table

Postby lythac » Thu Dec 16, 2010 8:23 am

æ wrote:
theckhd wrote:GetDodgeChance() and GetParryChance() already take into account diminishing returns, as do the percentages listed on your character sheet. Your macro would be applying a second round of Diminishing returns to them.


Really? Right under on the tooltip on both it says "(Before diminishing returns)" after the number it gives.. Urg so misleading!


The tooltip shows it before, but the sheet shows your actual values (vs equal level mob). Though think that's what you just realised.
Ryshad / Lythac of <Heretic> Nagrand-EU
User avatar
lythac
Moderator
 
Posts: 2694
Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 8:10 am

Re: Basic Training 101: The Attack Table

Postby æ » Thu Dec 16, 2010 11:13 am

lythac wrote:
æ wrote:
theckhd wrote:GetDodgeChance() and GetParryChance() already take into account diminishing returns, as do the percentages listed on your character sheet. Your macro would be applying a second round of Diminishing returns to them.


Really? Right under on the tooltip on both it says "(Before diminishing returns)" after the number it gives.. Urg so misleading!


The tooltip shows it before, but the sheet shows your actual values (vs equal level mob). Though think that's what you just realised.



The sheet and tooltip show the same chance, what I didn't realize was the rating number was separate from those numbers concerning the (before dr) note. :cry:
10 SIN
20 GOTO HELL
User avatar
æ
 
Posts: 213
Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2008 8:02 pm
Location: Santa Barbara

Re: Basic Training 101: The Attack Table

Postby JU1CYFRU1T » Sat Dec 18, 2010 9:32 am

theckhd wrote:While the Defense and Weapon Skill stats have been removed from the game as far as the players are concerned, they probably still exist in the game code in some form. In all likelihood, they just took them out as independent stats and tied them directly to level (i.e. weapon_skill=5*level). Since they were redundant to the player at that point, they got axed from the UI.


This is correct. At both of the previous Blizzcons ('09 and '10), Blizzard specifically stated that the stats were not "removed", they just found them too confusing for the community as a whole to have to deal with, so they took them out of our UIs.

I have a question about Expertise. You posted:
theckhd wrote:...and 56 expertise skill (1682 rating) to remove parries from the table. Expertise is only half as effective after 26 rating, so despite being our best threat stat below the "soft-cap" of 26 expertise skill, it's not efficient to try and increase threat by pursuing extra expertise past 26 skill.


If it appears that threat were a problem (either for me, personally, or as a whole)... would it be worthwhile to reforge for expertise (to the 56 limit)?

I took some time off of tanking (stopped 1/2 way through ICC), and now that I'm back... I want to make sure that I understand exactly how I should be building my gear from the start. Basically, should I just reforge 100% mastery (after getting hit-cap/ exp-softcap)?
JU1CYFRU1T
 
Posts: 25
Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2009 8:16 am

Re: Basic Training 101: The Attack Table

Postby theckhd » Sat Dec 18, 2010 7:56 pm

If threat became an issue, then hit and expertise would be your reforging goals. You'd want to reforge expertise first (up to 26), then hit (up to 8% melee hit), and then expertise again until 56. Strength and Stamina are both more efficient threat stats than expertise above 26, but we can't reforge into either of those.

If by some freak accident you managed to reforge to 8% hit and 56 expertise, the next best reforgable stat would be crit (I don't think you can reforge to AP).
"Theck, Bringer of Numbers and Pounding Headaches," courtesy of Grehn|Skipjack.
Simcraft 6.x, Call to Arms 6.0, Talent Spec & Glyph Guide 6.x, Blog: Sacred Duty
User avatar
theckhd
Moderator
 
Posts: 8003
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:06 pm
Location: Harrisburg, PA

Re: Basic Training 101: The Attack Table

Postby Jarvick » Sat Jan 01, 2011 10:07 pm

Great write up thanks alot
Jarvick
 
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2010 4:01 am
Location: Winterhoof

Re: Basic Training 101: The Attack Table

Postby Flex » Tue Jan 04, 2011 2:42 pm

I read through and have a question for Player attack specials against mobs that can block. I am not certain where the comes in but you can pull off blocked crits, which are greatly noticeable now that NPCs block for 30% of the damage. Not sure if it needs to be added or not.
We live in a society where people born on third base constantly try to steal second, yet we expect people born with two strikes against them to hit a homerun on the first pitch.
User avatar
Flex
 
Posts: 7505
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2007 7:29 am

PreviousNext

Return to Basic Training & Talents

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Yahoo [Bot] and 1 guest

Who is online

In total there are 2 users online :: 1 registered, 0 hidden and 1 guest (based on users active over the past 5 minutes)
Most users ever online was 380 on Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:28 pm

Users browsing this forum: Yahoo [Bot] and 1 guest