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[10man] Wyrmbreaker

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[10man] Wyrmbreaker

Postby Rokh » Tue Dec 14, 2010 7:40 am

Holy crap on a stick

This fight is 100% a healer/tank gearcheck.

We downed this guy monday night after 6 or 7 tries. For adds, we had the time drake, the storm drake, and the whelps.. dont know if those adds are world wide, or server based though.

We ended up spawning both the storm and the time at the pull, otherwise the shadow and fire damage was redonk.
With the better gear I tanked Wyrmbreaker and time, rolling cooldowns. The other tank picked up storm.

We used a shaman to windshock the shadownovas, i believe that is the only class with a 5sec? kick, so he could solo it.

Try and stack the drakes up, the enrage is crazy tight, we wiped twice with the boss at like 3% hp.

After the 2 drakes were down, we opend the whelp cage, droped fire ele totems and infernals, and burned them down fast... saved lust for the final burn as you get a rather large dps buff when all the adds are dead.

-edit-
just something funny, we got the rogue trinket from the boss.. then we got respawns, and we were half hearthing have fighting, and we got the rogue trinket from trash too..... we had 1 happy rogue.
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Re: [10man] Wyrmbreaker

Postby Belloc » Tue Dec 14, 2010 9:43 am

Another thing to note: At 50%, he'll start doing a roar that stuns and hurts. He will cast it 3 times in a row, followed by a shadow nova. This shadow nova should be interrupted, but doing so requires breaking the stun. The best way to do this is to have a mage blink during the last roar and counterspell the nova.

Failing to interrupt that nova will result in most of the raid being near death or, if hit by fireballs while stunned, dead.


For those of you that fought this on the beta, there is no 30% whirlwind phase on live.
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Re: [10man] Wyrmbreaker

Postby cds4850 » Tue Dec 14, 2010 10:06 am

Rokh wrote:This fight is 100% a healer/tank gearcheck.


Disagree.

This is 100% a "welcome to cataclysm, don't stand in fire and take unescessary damage that exceeds your healers throughput/regen". The triage model is in place, flash heals are overtly expensive for a reason. Healer's are going to spend the next three tiers of content making sure people have >0hp, rather than the previous expansion spent topping everyone and their pet off.
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Re: [10man] Wyrmbreaker

Postby Ulrik » Tue Dec 14, 2010 10:53 am

My group (10) also got Stone Drake, Time Drake, and Whelps. I don't see how this can be random unless he gets a different starting buff. With Stone drake available he had the buff that allowed him to cast shadow nova.

When he has shadow nova available all must be interrupted and they are cast about every 6 sec so a shaman would be ideal for interrupts. The first one is almost guaranteed to get cast anyway because it takes too long for the stone drake to activate and effect him. We just pulled and guess spammed interrupts on the pull and sometimes got lucky.

The big hovering Proto Drake pelts the raid with fireballs and does a massive raid fire breath every 20 sec. Massively overpowered IMO and requires significant raid heals or CDs each time.

Releasing and killing the whelps in the cage reduces encounter ability damage and makes the proto breath significantly less.

50% to 0 has him cast a triple stun and physical aoe every 30 sec always followed by a shadow nova cast. BOP an interrupter, Blink/CS, w/e on top of more raid CDs to live through.

What my group did was release and kill the Stone drake first to make interrupting the shadow nova practical. (Half sec or less cast brought to about 2). Then a dps casts the 'unlock' channel on the whelp cage to let them loose when the stone drake is very low. Aoe like mad then finish off boss minding the stun spam under 50%.

We found no reason not to stack the boss with either add type however I did still keep him faced away from the group. Proto fire balls do splash so melee get worked. I'd highly recommend lust on the Stone drake to get it killed and then the whelps out ASAP to reduce the proto breath.

cds4850 wrote:Healer's are going to spend the next three tiers of content making sure people have >0hp, rather than the previous expansion spent topping everyone and their pet off.


I'm finding that to be ridiculous. I like the general idea but since every fight I've done so far is just filled with massive raid 60-90k each it means you have to just sit there and top off, top off or wipe. Also leaving people even at half means they're dead or very low with poor means to bring them up on the next rng non tank "I turn shoot you with X" nonsense.

And this is separate from 'don't stand in fire'. I'm talking about Halfus proto breath, Omnitron 'room flamethrower', Magmaw aoe spew, and Wind council Blizzard to an extent.

From what I've seen so far, my tip for this Xpac: stack Holy Pally and spam Holy Radiance bringing your entire server to full health every 30 sec.
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Re: [10man] Wyrmbreaker

Postby baleogthefierce » Tue Dec 14, 2010 12:35 pm

We had the Storm Rider and Time Warden for our lockout.

We found it most productive to kill Storm Rider -> Time Warden -> Whelps. We killed the drakes one at a time to ensure that our healers could cover the tank damage without introducing addiitonal spikes of damage on the main tank. We used Heroism and raid cooldowns to get through the first drake since the raid damage was most unpredictable during that time. After the second drake was down, the only real raid damage was the breath from the Proto-Behemoth, as the direct damage fireballs were extremely easy to avoid. We tanked the drakes/whelps on top of Halfus to get some cleaves/AoE splashed onto him as well.
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Re: [10man] Wyrmbreaker

Postby Sala » Tue Dec 14, 2010 5:28 pm

10man 13dec

we had:
Time warden
Storm Rider
Nether Scion

We tried a few tries where we free'ed Either Time Warden or Storm rider first. every time raid died within 30sek.

We then freed Time warden and Storm rider at the same time and had me tanking them until both dead while our warrior tanked Wyrmbreaker for interupts.

we popped Heroism and Burned down both dragon and then nuked boss. never touched 3rd dragon. (i and the warrior swapped on Wyrmbreaker depended on who had Cooldowns up.
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Re: [10man] Wyrmbreaker

Postby Rokh » Tue Dec 14, 2010 8:08 pm

cds4850 wrote:
Rokh wrote:This fight is 100% a healer/tank gearcheck.


Disagree.

This is 100% a "welcome to cataclysm, don't stand in fire and take unescessary damage that exceeds your healers throughput/regen". The triage model is in place, flash heals are overtly expensive for a reason. Healer's are going to spend the next three tiers of content making sure people have >0hp, rather than the previous expansion spent topping everyone and their pet off.


I dont consider player errors part of the fight.

Its a tank check because most of the time, this encounter is going to play out with 2 tanks and 3 boss mobs live at one time, that would leave 1 tank with 2 dude that have 'BadAssMotherFucker' written on their wallets beating the crap of of him.
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Re: [10man] Wyrmbreaker

Postby Belloc » Tue Dec 14, 2010 10:21 pm

The fight is a tank gear and healer check. Gear makes the tank damage much easier to heal and good healers can heal it regardless.

If you have time warden, it's also a slight mobility fight.
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Re: [10man] Wyrmbreaker

Postby Malthrax » Wed Dec 15, 2010 8:31 am

Rokh wrote:
cds4850 wrote:
Rokh wrote:This fight is 100% a healer/tank gearcheck.


Disagree.

This is 100% a "welcome to cataclysm, don't stand in fire and take unescessary damage that exceeds your healers throughput/regen". The triage model is in place, flash heals are overtly expensive for a reason. Healer's are going to spend the next three tiers of content making sure people have >0hp, rather than the previous expansion spent topping everyone and their pet off.


I dont consider player errors part of the fight.

Its a tank check because most of the time, this encounter is going to play out with 2 tanks and 3 boss mobs live at one time, that would leave 1 tank with 2 dude that have 'BadAssMotherFucker' written on their wallets beating the crap of of him.


Sounds like I'm gonna have to call a couple of hard, pipe-hitting .. uh .. tanks? .. to go to work on the Wyrmbreaker here... with a pair of pliers and a blow torch.

You hear me talkin', Halfus? We ain't through with you by a damn sight! We's gonna get medieval on your ass!
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Re: [10man] Wyrmbreaker

Postby Senador » Wed Dec 15, 2010 10:38 am

Last reset we had Time Warden, Whelps and Storm Drake.

We were initially attempting to do it with only a single drake released, but without the Storm Drake the Shadow Nova almost always resulted in a wipe, and without the Time Warden the Fireball AoE was very high. We eventually released both the Storm Drake and the Time Warden at the same time, with one tank on Halfus and the other taking the drakes, rotating cool downs until the first drake was killed and then blowing bloodlust till it died. This was the highest damaging point of the fight, as you have two tanks taking damage, as well as the raid, and that first Shadow Nova almost always would go off due to him not having the Storm Drake’s debuff by the time he cast it. When the second drake was almost dead, we would release the whelps and AoE them down, then burn Halfus till he started using Furious Roar, and leads to my biggest complain of the encounter: The timing between Furious Roar and Shadow Nova is absolutely stupid. None of our DPS using any abilities were able to interrupt the Shadow Nova that immediately follows Furious Roar unless they were able to avoid the actual stun. I can understand a tight timer to do it, forcing a way to navigate around the stun is harsh. We managed to do it with a Blinking Mage in the end.

This week we ended up with Whelps, Storm Drake and Nether Scion. Very similar to the previous week, in that we released two drakes at once, chained cool downs and bloodlusted the first drake, focused down second, released whelps burned boss with a way to avoid the stun to avoid the Furious Roar/Shadow Nova combination. Honestly, our biggest hurdle with the fight, besides the tank damage taken and healers adjusting was handling interrupts on Halfus.
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Re: [10man] Wyrmbreaker

Postby Belloc » Wed Dec 15, 2010 11:18 am

If it weren't for the Furious Roars followed by the Shadow Nova, the fight would be a total joke after the adds were finished. The roars --> nova is simple enough to deal with, especially if you have a mage (as you have figured out). Other working strategies include using Hand of Protection on an interrupter or bubbling and interrupting.

Avoiding the stun is the point of that combination... otherwise the fight would be over as soon as the drakes were dead. That's good encounter design, if you ask me :P
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Re: [10man] Wyrmbreaker

Postby d503 » Wed Dec 15, 2010 11:41 am

We had the Time Warden, Storm Rider and the Emerald Whelps.

We tried many different options at first, but it's obvious that if you have the Storm Rider, you *must* free him first because of the speed of the Shadow Nova cast.

Our kill consisted of:

1. Storm Rider
2. Emerald Whelps (to reduce overall damage)
3. Time Warden

In retrospect, we should've just freed the Storm Rider and the Whelps at the same time because of the buff the whelps give (50% reduced damage done by all mobs), as we had some difficulty with healing and instagibbing when Stormy was the only one up.

With the whelps in play, the Protodrakes fireballs and raidwide aoe become trivial. If we had not had them, we would've put the Time Warden second, most likely.
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Re: [10man] Wyrmbreaker

Postby Senador » Wed Dec 15, 2010 12:49 pm

There are a few other minor things to deal with in the fight beyond the Roar/Nova interaction. Not only that, but not all drake combinations will even have that. If the Storm Rider is not up, then there is no Nova, so that combination never occurs at all. I can’t imagine that if the combination were any three that didn’t include the Storm Rider that there would be anything like the Roar/Nova bit.

Looking at the drakes, it appears they do:

Nether Scion: Removes 100% haste buff from Halfus. Halfus has 100% haste buff when this drake is involved in the encounter.
Time Warden: Slows down Fire Ball Barrage from Drake making it so you can avoid them. When Time Warden is involved in the encounter, there are substantially more fireballs than if he is not present.
Storm Rider: Slows down the cast speed of Shadow Nova from .5 seconds to 2 seconds, allowing it to be interrupted. Halfus has the ability to cast Shadow Nova when the Storm Rider is involved in the encounter.
Emerald Whelps: Reduces damage from Scorching Breath by 50%. When the whelps are involved in the encounter, the Behemoth gains a buff giving it the ability to do Scorching Breath.
5th Drake: Originally, I believe this produced a stacking Mortal Wound effect on the tank, while releasing it randomly stunned Halfus. The mortal wound effect is not present when this drake is not included in the encounter.

I mainly think it’s a bit silly that that particular drake makes the fight so much harder to deal with because of that one boss ability interaction that never occurs in other variants of the fight. Looking at the drake abilities, no combination causes a “Screw” ability combo like the Storm Rider has. Were we able to work around it, and did we find a way to handle it? Yes. But if someone else got a completely different set up (Say, Time Warden, Whelps, Nether Scion) they would never have to deal with that at all, and then the last phase IS an actual tank and spank/dodge fire fight. That’s a pretty big difficulty curve difference of the same fight from week to week.
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Re: [10man] Wyrmbreaker

Postby theckhd » Wed Dec 15, 2010 1:36 pm

Belloc wrote:If it weren't for the Furious Roars followed by the Shadow Nova, the fight would be a total joke after the adds were finished. The roars --> nova is simple enough to deal with, especially if you have a mage (as you have figured out). Other working strategies include using Hand of Protection on an interrupter or bubbling and interrupting.

Avoiding the stun is the point of that combination... otherwise the fight would be over as soon as the drakes were dead. That's good encounter design, if you ask me :P


It would be good encounter design if there were more ways of countering it. If mages and paladins are the only way to accomplish this, then 10-man groups without either will be at a serious disadvantage.

Does HoP actually work, by the way? I thought it prevented the player from attacking or using offensive abilities.
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Re: [10man] Wyrmbreaker

Postby d503 » Wed Dec 15, 2010 1:42 pm

theckhd wrote:
Belloc wrote:If it weren't for the Furious Roars followed by the Shadow Nova, the fight would be a total joke after the adds were finished. The roars --> nova is simple enough to deal with, especially if you have a mage (as you have figured out). Other working strategies include using Hand of Protection on an interrupter or bubbling and interrupting.

Avoiding the stun is the point of that combination... otherwise the fight would be over as soon as the drakes were dead. That's good encounter design, if you ask me :P


It would be good encounter design if there were more ways of countering it. If mages and paladins are the only way to accomplish this, then 10-man groups without either will be at a serious disadvantage.

Does HoP actually work, by the way? I thought it prevented the player from attacking or using offensive abilities.


Not sure if HOP works,but you could technically HOP a DK for Mindfreeze, since that's a spell. I was able to Bubble+HOJ.

We ultimately went with the blinking mage tactic.
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