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Raid Order

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Raid Order

Postby mosa » Wed Dec 15, 2010 6:01 am

Hey
We were getting to where we had about 50% of the health on 4 winds gone, and then invariably someone would screw up on the wind boss and get into his silence, or adds would get loose... we then moved on to Magmaw, and after a couple of wipes to figure out the adds the healers deemed it unhealable with the present gear..

My question is, what instance should we be startig on? I'm thinking people have to treat 346 gear as the new epics and gem and enchant it....

I feel we can get 4 winds down, just need some more work at it, but I'm curious to know how your pushing your guilds to do better.
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Re: Raid Order

Postby Invisusira » Wed Dec 15, 2010 6:06 am

mosa wrote:My question is, what instance should we be startig on? I'm thinking people have to treat 346 gear as the new epics and gem and enchant it....

Hell, I was doing that with 333 gear.
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Re: Raid Order

Postby mosa » Wed Dec 15, 2010 6:22 am

Invisusira wrote:
mosa wrote:My question is, what instance should we be startig on? I'm thinking people have to treat 346 gear as the new epics and gem and enchant it....

Hell, I was doing that with 333 gear.


Well IMO, tank gear has so much focus it needs that kind of attention, but I'm trying to spread that attitude to my other guildies. I just looked through armory, and I would say 30% of gear at the 346 level is enchanted. People, IMO, don't want to spend the coin on blues because they are waiting for epics.... but we can't get the epics without using the gear we have
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Re: Raid Order

Postby Invisusira » Wed Dec 15, 2010 6:44 am

People are stupid. If you're raiding, your gear needs to be as good as it can. When I started leveling, I had less than 1k. Upon reaching 85, I had 10k. Gold is no excuse. If someone's in 346 gear, it had damn well better be gemmed and enchanted.

Are you the raid leader? Don't invite people who don't have their stuff gemchanted, period.
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Re: Raid Order

Postby Nikachelle » Wed Dec 15, 2010 7:17 am

Stupid WotLK mentality. "Well I'm not going to enchant my free ToC 5 gear (EPICS I might add) because I'll just replace it later with something better."

Hell, even using the WotLK enchants instead of the (possibly) pricier Cata enchants is better than using nothing at all.
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Re: Raid Order

Postby sculder » Wed Dec 15, 2010 7:24 am

expecting to raid effectively with un-enchanted and/or un-gemmed gear is unrealistic at best. I removed a few people from raid yesterday because of a lack of enchants and flasks, I suggest you take a similar stance
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Re: Raid Order

Postby lythac » Wed Dec 15, 2010 7:47 am

Once at 85 and planning to do Heroics or raids then every single piece should be enchanted, gemmed and reforged if applicable. The quality of gem/enchant is debatable but there absolutely has to be something in every piece.

I'm using Wrath shoulder enchant (best enchant I have access to atm) on a 318 piece that I only intend to keep for a few hours as am planning to get a quest reward pair next, which will also get the enchant. Then going to get a JP pair.

Due to there not being a +50 mastery to boots scroll on the AH I had to stick a cheap +44sta armor kit on my 318 boots, just to have something on them.



There should be a certain grace period before you prevent people from raiding. Turning up half enchanted after being 85 for a couple of hours and coming because there is no one else is different from a longer time 85 with zero enchants. If you impose too strict regulations you may damage your raiding more than several unenchanted players.
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Re: Raid Order

Postby inthedrops » Wed Dec 15, 2010 8:06 am

I completely understand why people don't fully gem up due to cost. The new helm meta goes for 2k gold on my server.

But there are things you can do to combat it. For example, I setup some posts in our guild forums to coordinate who buys what patterns so that we can leverage guild mates and not rely on having to purchase. Also, people need to share the love and not be selfish trying to get rich. Selling all your ore making 100k gold in a day vs. asking if anyone needs some to finish crafting an item and working out a deal between them, etc.
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Re: Raid Order

Postby Malthrax » Wed Dec 15, 2010 8:15 am

inthedrops wrote:I completely understand why people don't fully gem up due to cost. The new helm meta goes for 2k gold on my server.


Sure, the NEW meta gem is expensive; however...

At least on my server/faction, WotLK-era gem cuts and enchants are selling on the auction house for pennies and, while they're not PERFECT, they're miles better than an empty slot. Cataclysm GREEN gem cuts are selling for, mostly, less than 20g a pop as grinders dump their skill-up gems.

Getting sufficient rep with Therazane for the cheap shoulder enchant requires doing what? 1/2 the zone? If thats too hard or time consuming, go buy a dozen Son's of Hodir enchants and mail them to an alt, then mail them back. Now you have shoulder enchants at-the-ready in your mailbox.

There simply is no excuse to not throw some trash-gems in, and trash-enchants on, your trash-gear.
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Re: Raid Order

Postby Belloc » Wed Dec 15, 2010 9:30 am

Magmaw requires a tank switch, as a tank will get a large debuff applied to them after mangle (I think). That's probably what your healers deemed "unhealable."

So far, every fight we've done has been about the same difficulty (hard). We've killed Omnitron, Magmaw, Three Winds, Halfus, and Valiona/Theralion. Like I said, they are all of similar difficulty, with the three winds being somewhat easier. If you can't kill one of them, you're not going to kill the others.


Here's a huge piece of advice: If something seems unhealable, you're doing it wrong, especially in the case of Magmaw. How about letting us know what you're having troubles with -- I know some of us are itching to share our advice.

Another piece of advice: Go do the Baradin Hold boss. Use two healers. If you have any trouble with that, you're not ready to raid.
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Re: Raid Order

Postby mosa » Wed Dec 15, 2010 11:00 am

Belloc wrote:Magmaw requires a tank switch, as a tank will get a large debuff applied to them after mangle (I think). That's probably what your healers deemed "unhealable."

So far, every fight we've done has been about the same difficulty (hard). We've killed Omnitron, Magmaw, Three Winds, Halfus, and Valiona/Theralion. Like I said, they are all of similar difficulty, with the three winds being somewhat easier. If you can't kill one of them, you're not going to kill the others.


Here's a huge piece of advice: If something seems unhealable, you're doing it wrong, especially in the case of Magmaw. How about letting us know what you're having troubles with -- I know some of us are itching to share our advice.

Another piece of advice: Go do the Baradin Hold boss. Use two healers. If you have any trouble with that, you're not ready to raid.


We have been fairly easy to down Baradin hold twice now but that fight is a joke in so many ways. I'm definatly going to take the advice and lay the smackdown, people are going to show up with enchants on every peice (even if it's wolk enchants where reasonable upgrades are not obtainable) and gems in every slot.

I'll let you know how it goes... we have a flush gbank from wolk raiding, so I'm sure we can assist people some with the enchanting.
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Re: Raid Order

Postby Njall » Wed Dec 15, 2010 1:07 pm

Actually, this is one reason why my JC and enchanter are making surprisingly large amounts of dosh selling WoLK gems and scrolls. It is weird but I'll take the cash while I can.
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Re: Raid Order

Postby d503 » Wed Dec 15, 2010 1:45 pm

Belloc wrote:Magmaw requires a tank switch, as a tank will get a large debuff applied to them after mangle (I think). That's probably what your healers deemed "unhealable".


I thought the Mangle debuff was only present when you were being chewed up in his mouth, and if the dps didn't break you out by dragging him down in time you just die.
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Re: Raid Order

Postby Belloc » Wed Dec 15, 2010 2:09 pm

d503 wrote:
Belloc wrote:Magmaw requires a tank switch, as a tank will get a large debuff applied to them after mangle (I think). That's probably what your healers deemed "unhealable".


I thought the Mangle debuff was only present when you were being chewed up in his mouth, and if the dps didn't break you out by dragging him down in time you just die.

The mangle debuff isn't the only one placed on tanks. There is another debuff that increases damage taken. It's still healable, but difficult to do so. Without a tank swap, you're just draining your healers and risking death.
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Re: Raid Order

Postby d503 » Wed Dec 15, 2010 2:22 pm

Belloc wrote:
d503 wrote:
Belloc wrote:Magmaw requires a tank switch, as a tank will get a large debuff applied to them after mangle (I think). That's probably what your healers deemed "unhealable".


I thought the Mangle debuff was only present when you were being chewed up in his mouth, and if the dps didn't break you out by dragging him down in time you just die.

The mangle debuff isn't the only one placed on tanks. There is another debuff that increases damage taken. It's still healable, but difficult to do so. Without a tank swap, you're just draining your healers and risking death.


We had some trouble on the fight with the amount of damage raid-wide, so we moved on. Good to know about the debuff.
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