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4.2 Tank Stages and Cataclysm Gear Guide

Get help with your character's gear

Moderators: Fridmarr, Worldie, Aergis, Sabindeus, majiben, lythac, Digren

Re: 4.0 Tank Levels and Gear Guide

Postby Digren » Fri Nov 26, 2010 9:28 pm

sally wrote:Here's a list I finished last night for reference when I'm getting my own gear. It's not perfect but it might help you speed up the listing!

I have all your items incorporated. Thanks for the help!
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Re: 4.0 Tank Levels and Gear Guide

Postby Digren » Fri Nov 26, 2010 9:30 pm

Neptuno wrote:should adjust the discussion for the BV changes for rank 0 since we won't be block capped completely while leveling

It's been adjusted. I still recommend pushing towards it as a great way to increase survivability, as mastery rating reducing damage intake more than an equal amount of parry or dodge rating. The text should make sense now though to someone who didn't follow the boufs and noifs from build to build in beta. :D Thanks!
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Re: 4.0 Tank Levels and Gear Guide

Postby Digren » Fri Nov 26, 2010 9:33 pm

Braundo wrote:Have you intentionally listed the Ret T11 legs rather than the Prot ones in the Level 3 list? Is it going to be optimal to go 4/5 Prot for the 4-piece bonus and then taking the Ret legs because of their stats? Or was this just an oversight?

The list is far more complete now, including both the prot and ret legs. I still need to flag items intended to build a threat offset, including those legs, with my threat symbol. I want to build the base survival character models first, then see just how many pieces of threat gear are needed to (soft) cap hit and expertize, and determine if the average tank will need to waste points or a token on ret legs.
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Re: 4.0 Tank Levels and Gear Guide

Postby Digren » Fri Nov 26, 2010 10:03 pm

Kelaan wrote:I had made a listing of some of the gear I'd encounter while leveling, and where it's from. It's really only for the path TO 85 (so not a lot of info on heroic gear or raiding stuff), but it was helpful for me to see which dungeons I want to focus on, and where the good questing is.

I've gone through your list to ensure that I have all the tank items listed.

I haven't included threat/mastery items where the threat stat is crit rating or haste. This was a conscious decision to limit the size of my list, by excluding items that provide (slightly) lesser threat stats. I'll roll against DPS for something that truly helps me tank (including good tank gear), but I'll pass on stuff that is non-optimal. Of course my second spec isn't ret so I'm sure others' opinions will differ.

Thanks!
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Re: 4.0.3a Tank Levels and Gear Guide

Postby Digren » Sat Nov 27, 2010 12:32 am

Ok, most everything is up to date, though I still need to rate the gear at each level, and see if which, if any, higher level items are attainable at a lower level (like the engie goggles). I'm still looking for a functional character profiler / modeler / sandbox to build tank level models.

merciless-guild : dead and gone
warcrafter.net : still limited to level 80; no indication it's been maintained since April 2009
ctprofiles.net : died with WoW 3.0 in 2008
wowdigger : dead and gone
chardev.org : still limited to level 80; developer abandoned it in October
Wowhead profilter : still limited to level 80; no indication of when it will be updated
magelo.com : says it supports 4.0.3a so it might work, but is hung trying to sync my character (and won't let me use the sandbox without importing)
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Re: 4.0.3a Tank Levels and Gear Guide

Postby vexryn » Sat Nov 27, 2010 11:01 am

Digren,
Awesome stuff here. I've put a link in my gear list thread to connect over to yours.
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Re: 4.0.3a Tank Levels and Gear Guide

Postby Error_Demon » Mon Nov 29, 2010 1:01 pm

You wrote to reforge the highest of item stat (expertise, hit, dodge, parry) into mastery. But what about a Expertise and Hit Rating cap (threat as you wrote is only one problem, but dps is second)? If I reforge my hit, or expertise into mastery I'll probalby loss my cap, so my dps will go down isn't it? I aggre with you at reforging Dodge, and Parry, but no Expertise and Hit (the only way will be probably reforge some of hit into expertise to get full cap and clear dps without any losses on blocks and parries by mobs).

And could you tell something more about block cap? It will be still at 102.4%?
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Re: 4.0.3a Tank Levels and Gear Guide

Postby Digren » Mon Nov 29, 2010 2:29 pm

Error_Demon wrote:You wrote to reforge the highest of item stat (expertise, hit, dodge, parry) into mastery. But what about a Expertise and Hit Rating cap (threat as you wrote is only one problem, but dps is second)? If I reforge my hit, or expertise into mastery I'll probalby loss my cap, so my dps will go down isn't it? I aggre with you at reforging Dodge, and Parry, but no Expertise and Hit (the only way will be probably reforge some of hit into expertise to get full cap and clear dps without any losses on blocks and parries by mobs).

And could you tell something more about block cap? It will be still at 102.4%?

You don't need DPS - that's not your job. DPS isn't second to me. It's like 6th on my list of priorities, somewhere under keeping my healer happy by blocking as much as possible. You do need threat, but only enough to exceed the DPS players in your group. DPS and wasted threat are not the purpose of your survivability gear. If you want DPS, switch to your threat gear.

If you do what you state, you could find yourself with a single, mediocre set for both hard tanking and easy threat/DPS. Why do that when you can make two awesome sets?

The block cap is still 102.4%, at least for T11, but you can't reach it. Around 75% is about as close as you can get without activating trinkets or building a gimmicky set that sacrifices a lot of health. Blizzard said that they will require more rating at higher tiers in Cata (something they've never done before), but they haven't said if they'll do this by raising boss levels (and hence require 103.2%, 104.0%, etc.) or if they'll just give bosses hit and expertise rating.
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Re: 4.0.3a Tank Levels and Gear Guide

Postby lythac » Mon Nov 29, 2010 3:24 pm

I wonder if the 0.2 slower speed on Cookie's Tenderizer would warrant its inclusion under both threat and surv threat for "Tank Level 2" weapons. Unforged it should rival the threat weapons that have either agi/haste/crit. If reforged Mastery to Hit there is a chance it is the highest threat weapon at that level. Comes down to 0.2 Weapon Speed vs 52 expertise Smite's Reaver (with the added bonus of minor survivability with the remainder of the unforged Mastery).

(Not that you would typically reforge for threat on a weapon)

The slower speed doesn't eat into any itemisation so is sexy (as sexy as a rolling pin can get).
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Re: 4.0 Tank Levels and Gear Guide

Postby Kelaan » Tue Nov 30, 2010 12:53 pm

Digren wrote:I haven't included threat/mastery items where the threat stat is crit rating or haste. This was a conscious decision to limit the size of my list, by excluding items that provide (slightly) lesser threat stats.

I originally planned to ignore them, but then I realized that depending on what piece I'm upgrading, the EH and Armor stats alone make some of them "tanking" upgrades, esp in the ilevel 333 range. Not optimal pieces, but something that I can conceivably wear, enchant, or reforge for tanky stats until I get better (or use while questing). I agree, though, they're likely not the best things to have on a tanking list, esp since my list was primarily a "what can I get while leveling" list, rather than a "what do I need/want pre-raiding/pre-heroics" list.
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Re: 4.0.3a Tank Levels and Gear Guide

Postby econ21 » Fri Dec 10, 2010 12:55 am

I wonder if it would be worth having a level 1.5 "geared for heroics", given the item level requirement in LFD (average 329?). This would be an amalgam of gear from levels 1 and 2 with an emphasis on "failsafe" items that can be picked up fast (no exalted reps), with modest cost (no top tier crafted gear). I guess a lot of new level 85s will be making their own such lists; I'll post mine when I ding.
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Re: Tank Level 2: Geared to Start Raiding

Postby econ21 » Fri Dec 10, 2010 2:57 am

Here's what I have put together, drawing from lists for levels 1 and 2:

Heroic ready failsafe list

Head: [Grinning Fang Helm] / [Crown of Wings] : Dragonmaw Clan / Wildhammer Clan (Revered)
Neck: [Mountain's Mouth] : Guardians of Hyjal (Honored)
Shoulders: [Sunburnt Pauldrons] : 1650 Justice Points
Back: [Shroud of the Dead] : Ramkahen - Honored
Chest: [Breastplate of the Witness] : Grim Batol (Quest)
Wrists: [Dunwald's Finest Bindings] : Twilight Highlands (Quest)
Hands: [Gloves of Gnomebliteration] : Uldum (Quest)
Waist: [Girdle of the Mountains] : 1650 Justice Points
Legs: [Stone-Wrapped Greaves] : The Earthen Ring (Honored)
Feet: [Ramkahen Front Boots] : Lost City of the Tol'vir (Quest)
Finger #1: [Red Rock Band] : Ramkahen (Revered)
Finger #2
:[Felsen's Ring of Resolve] : Therazane (Revered)
Trinket #1: [Harrison's Insignia of Panache] : Uldum (Quest)
Trinket #2: [Za'brok's Lucky Tooth] / [Za'brok's Lucky Tooth] : Twilight Highlands (Quest)
Weapon: [Mace of the Gullet] : Twilight Highlands (Quest)
[Dragonscorn Mace] : Twilight Highlands (Quest)
Shield
: [Truthbreaker Shield] : Req. Lev. 84 : Stormwind (Quest)
Relic: [Shore-Cleansing Standard]

There are a few slots where I am struggling - trinkets obviously. Also, the cloak is a dps one, but has mastery and there did not seem to be easy alternatives.

As I went to Vashj'ir and not Hyjal, I personally am stuck on the neck slot as I don't have any Hyjal rep. There are drops in Halls of Origination but as with the cloak I may just cheat and find a non-tank blue to get by.

I am not sure if the two JP purchases are the best use of ones 4000 honor, but I suspect they are ok. There are no obvious "failsafe" items in those slots (I fear the BS belt will be prohibitively expensive). JP items seem generally the best pre-raid gear, so we will probably end up doing a Yappo style blitz and filling most slots with them pre-raid. To that extent, it may not matter which ones we buy when - we will get 'em all eventually.

I have not done the maths, but hopefully the 346 items will balance out those items under level and get me to 329+ average.
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Re: 4.0.3a Tank Stages and Cataclysm Gear Guide

Postby Digren » Sat Dec 11, 2010 10:30 am

I restructured things to have five stages, to provide a distinct stage for pre-heroic level 85 dungeons. When Wowhead (or one of the other profile sites) finally has working level 85 character models, I'll use your gear set as the basis for the new stage 2 model.
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Re: 4.0.3a Tank Stages and Cataclysm Gear Guide

Postby econ21 » Sun Dec 12, 2010 3:58 am

It's looking good Digren - although I think you might have missed the quest shield in my list. You have to do that quest to start the Twilight Highlands, so new level 85s should have it.

Having spent half a day a 85, I got a set that would allow me to do heroics. The main difference from the list I posted is the absence of most revered reputation pieces. I think my hitting revered with Therazane while levelling was a fluke - the other factions are a way off (only half way to revered or less). I am little vague which dungeons give rep with tabards. I had thought (hoped?) all dungeons would but it does not seem so. The tabard tool tips say L85 dungeons, so I guess that is Grim Baol, Halls of Origination and the Lost City (plus heroics ofc)? So doing your random daily does not guarantee any rep (it could include Vortex Pinnacle or Stonecore). Both the dailies and dungeon runs seem to give around 2k rep, so grinding rep is slow but sure.
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Re: 4.0.3a Tank Levels and Gear Guide

Postby theckhd » Mon Dec 13, 2010 7:03 am

lythac wrote:I wonder if the 0.2 slower speed on Cookie's Tenderizer would warrant its inclusion under both threat and surv threat for "Tank Level 2" weapons.


Probably. It performs right on par with 359 normal-mode raid weapons.

Here's my recommendations on weapons:

Theck wrote:TLDR Summary:
  • Weapon performance can roughly be determined by sorting in this order:
    1. ilvl and speed (+0.2 speed is worth ~ 13 ilvls)
    2. Primary and Secondary stats (STR>AGI, Hit/Exp>Crit/Haste)
  • DPS weapons aren't really anything special anymore, they're no better or worse than an equal-ilvl tank weapon with similar primary/secondary stats.
  • Slow spellpower weapons lag tanking weapons by about 26 ilvls at best, fast spellpower weapons are far worse.
  • Rule of Thumb: Within an ilvl category, pick items based on the secondary stats you like. For upgrades, slower and higher ilvl is almost always better.


Also a couple of observations/comments about the list(s):
  • Killshades probably shouldn't be included in the level 2 list, as they require at least one Heroic clear (and more likely, several until you win an orb).
  • [Twilight Dragonscale Cloak] is probably worth listing on the level 4 list, as it's very comparable to [Wrap of the Great Turtle]. The crafted item has 41 more stamina, the epic has +15 dodge, +15 mastery, and +15 parry from Strength. Since Hyjal has little else to offer past Honored, using the crafted item lets you put that rep grind on the back burner so you can focus on Wildhammer/Ramkahen.
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