Reforging/Mastery/Block Cap Compilation Guide (4.0.X)

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Re: Reforging/Mastery/Block Cap Compilation Guide (4.0.1)

Postby Palisade » Thu Nov 18, 2010 11:09 am

Christiane wrote:I've developed a variant of the macro that provides current values and target values in one line. It's hard to fit it all into the 255-character limit of a macro, so excuse to obtuse nature of the code. The whole thing should be on one line in the game macro window.

Code: Select all
/script function f(v) return string.format("%.2f",v) end local b,d,p=GetBlockChance(),GetDodgeChance(),GetParryChance() DEFAULT_CHAT_FRAME:AddMessage("Dodge: "..f(d).."/21.6; Parry: "..f(p).."/21.44. Total: "..f(b+d+p+5).."/87.4 (102.4 inc HS)")


Output on my pally:

Dodge: 22.18/21.6; Parry: 22.03/21.44. Total: 89.12/87.4 (102.4 inc HS)


What is the variation in the 1st vs 2nd #'s in each segment of the output?
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Re: Reforging/Mastery/Block Cap Compilation Guide (4.0.1)

Postby sculder » Thu Nov 18, 2010 12:40 pm

Palisade wrote:However, I love to see a macro (as others mentioned previously) that included the 15% from holy shield.


In the original macro, just add a +15 after the +5 at the end. (or change it to +20). Or, change it to say "need 87.4% avoidance" instead of 102.4
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Re: Reforging/Mastery/Block Cap Compilation Guide (4.0.1)

Postby Christiane » Thu Nov 18, 2010 1:16 pm

Palisade wrote:
Christiane wrote:Dodge: 22.18/21.6; Parry: 22.03/21.44. Total: 89.12/87.4 (102.4 inc HS)

What is the variation in the 1st vs 2nd #'s in each segment of the output?

The first number is your actual value, pulled from the game stats. The second number (after the slash) is the target value taken from this thread. For dodge and parry, you want to try to stay above this value while keeping the two stats more or less even. For the total, you want it to be as high as possible, at least equal to the second value to ensure all incoming hits are blocked or avoided (when you take Holy Shield into account).

Edited to fix quoting.
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Re: Reforging/Mastery/Block Cap Compilation Guide (4.0.1)

Postby Palisade » Fri Nov 19, 2010 6:32 am

Christiane wrote:
Palisade wrote:
Christiane wrote:Dodge: 22.18/21.6; Parry: 22.03/21.44. Total: 89.12/87.4 (102.4 inc HS)

What is the variation in the 1st vs 2nd #'s in each segment of the output?

The first number is your actual value, pulled from the game stats. The second number (after the slash) is the target value taken from this thread. For dodge and parry, you want to try to stay above this value while keeping the two stats more or less even. For the total, you want it to be as high as possible, at least equal to the second value to ensure all incoming hits are blocked or avoided (when you take Holy Shield into account).

Edited to fix quoting.


Ahhh
Very nice then =) Thank you!
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Re: Reforging/Mastery/Block Cap Compilation Guide (4.0.1)

Postby Khellitha » Fri Nov 19, 2010 4:57 pm

Has anyone looking in to where the point at which Mastery becomes better then Dodge / Parry will be with 4.03a (with the increase in block value to 40% with Holy Shield, and changes to amount of block% per mastery point?

Did a very brief calculation, which I tested with first post to make sure maths tallyed up:

179 Mastery Rating = 2.25% Block (at lv 85)
2.25 Block * 0.4 (Block Damage Reduction) = 0.9 Avoidance per Mastery Point / or 0.005028 per Mastery Rating.

Then using the Dodge Rating Converison for level 85
176.71899 Dodge Rating = 1% Dodge (before DR)
Then using the DR formula from EJ, I worked out the actually avoidance for a given amount of Dodge Rating and the same Dodge Rating +1.
Subtracted the values to find the diffence and the amount of avoidance gained for 1 rating.

Using this method the point that I determined Mastery to be better then Dodge is at 7.16% (1266 Rating) which seems an awefully low value, and would be lower when taking into account the 5% Block Meta.

Have I got this right? Is Mastery basically always going to be better then Dodge and Parry in Cataclysm (considering it would be difficult to not have 7.16% Avoidance even in the Uncommon lvl 85 loot).

Also why in the OP are the values for Parry and Dodge different, I thought they had the same DR now, or is there a slight difference?

Edit: Its caused by the Dodge gained from Base Agility, which isn't included in the DR effect, Right? :P
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Re: Reforging/Mastery/Block Cap Compilation Guide (4.0.1)

Postby theckhd » Fri Nov 19, 2010 9:30 pm

It's actually lower than that. I worked it out 2 pages back, it's closer to 942 rating.
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Re: Reforging/Mastery/Block Cap Compilation Guide (4.0.1)

Postby Khellitha » Sat Nov 20, 2010 5:32 am

Ah yes, thanks completely missed all that :? .

Missed alot of changes to the DR calculations aswell and forget about base Parry/Dodge when working out the rating, oh well thats why my maths is flawed (doing maths at midnight is a bad idea! :D).
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Re: Reforging/Mastery/Block Cap Compilation Guide (4.0.1/4.0.3a)

Postby Thalastor82 » Wed Nov 24, 2010 9:38 am

I'm not sure it is really interesting but I did few very simple calculations to understand if my damage intake was buffed/nerfed/kept constant with the 4.0.3a change of mastery.
I didn't find such a calculation in the previous pages, so I propose it.

My armory sheet is: http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet ... =Thalastor
parry: 21.39%
dodge: 20.91%
miss: 5%
armor reduction: 64.6%
sanctuary reduction: 10%

I consider roughly that against a boss, raid buffed, I have 21.4 + 20.9 + 5 - 1.8 + 2.5 = 48%
where 2.5% is the dodge+parry coming from agi+strength of king+battlecry

I was block capped during the 4.0.1, assuming HS up
Incoming physical damage 4.0.1: DMG*(1-0.646)*0.9*(0.48*0 + 0.52*0.7) = 11.6%DMG
The .52 is just the complement to 1, calculated backwards.

Now I have the same avoidance, I'm not block capped anymore but in exchange for the buff on the blocking value:
Incoming physical damage 4.0.1: DMG*(1-0.646)*0.9*(0.48*0 + (0.415-0.006)*0.6 + 0.111) = 11.35%DMG
I have used the the blocking % value on the armory sheet (41.5%) and subtracted the 0.6% malus for appliend by the 83 boss.

Based on the analysis of the specific case, it seems that the incoming damage has slightly decreased. Unluckily, it will be more spiky...

I wonder why they did this change: it was too easy to heal a pal with respect to a war because of the cap block? Or they wanted make mastery more powerful, increasing the amount blocked and giving more blocking per mastery point?
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Re: Reforging/Mastery/Block Cap Compilation Guide (4.0.1/4.0.3a)

Postby Dantriges » Wed Nov 24, 2010 4:54 pm

They didn´t like us to block cap easily.
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Re: Reforging/Mastery/Block Cap Compilation Guide (4.0.1/4.0.3a)

Postby Kamerheimer » Wed Nov 24, 2010 5:45 pm

i have GS level 228 gear and am wondering what i should do to reforge. i am only doing heroics so i have my exp at 24 and my hit at 6%, well just over that.

so obviously i am good on those stats. idk how much dodge/parry i should reforge into mastery. i obv cant hit the block cap at this point. i have been reforging alot of haste/crit into mastery on non tanking gear and on tanking gear have been reforging whatever stat is higher on the gear (dodge/parry) into mastery. idk if i am doing this right or not. thanks for any input. currently dodge and parry are quite a bit below the DR caps listed in the thread.
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Re: Reforging/Mastery/Block Cap Compilation Guide (4.0.1/4.0.3a)

Postby tbolt » Wed Nov 24, 2010 8:12 pm

Kamerheimer wrote:i have GS level 228 gear and am wondering what i should do to reforge. i am only doing heroics so i have my exp at 24 and my hit at 6%, well just over that.

so obviously i am good on those stats. idk how much dodge/parry i should reforge into mastery. i obv cant hit the block cap at this point. i have been reforging alot of haste/crit into mastery on non tanking gear and on tanking gear have been reforging whatever stat is higher on the gear (dodge/parry) into mastery. idk if i am doing this right or not. thanks for any input. currently dodge and parry are quite a bit below the DR caps listed in the thread.


I can't see your gear but in my humble opinion you should reforge as much into mastery as possible. The dodge/parry DR caps are good indicators for high end raiders that want to fine tune their gear so that they're not wasting stats. Since you're just doing heroics, you don't really have to worry about that. As it stands right now 1% of dodge/parry seems to give more than twice its value in block which gets you closer to the block cap faster. It also means that you will take less complete hits and experience more blocked hits which will reduce damage while helping you continue to build vengeance (very helpful in generating better threat).
With all this said, I'm assuming you're not having problems with dying in heroics...
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Re: Reforging/Mastery/Block Cap Compilation Guide (4.0.1/4.0.3a)

Postby Kamerheimer » Fri Nov 26, 2010 10:45 pm

so i guess i am doing the right thing. only having trouble in pos and hor but most of that is due to poor healers
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Re: Reforging/Mastery/Block Cap Compilation Guide (4.0.1)

Postby vexryn » Sat Nov 27, 2010 2:27 pm

theckhd wrote:Yup, your math looks correct. So when this change goes through, it will be nearly impossible to reforge away enough avoidance to make mastery the less attractive option. We'll get enough parry rating from STR to push us over, and probably enough dodge just from agility raid buffs.

<edit> The short version of the formula would be:

Threshold level = (1/Cm)*2.25*0.4
Undiminished avoidance per rating point = (1/Ca)

Where Cm and Ca are the conversion factors for mastery and avoidance, respectively. At level 85, the threshold level is 0.0050201, and the undiminished avoidance per rating point is 0.0056587. So we'll be in pretty much the same position.

At level 80 with the new coefficients, mastery eclipses parry or dodge once we receive 234 rating (or 4.997%) from DR sources, meaning that it's a net intake reduction all the way down 10% total parry (or dodge).

At level 85, it happens at 942 rating (5.139%), just above 10% total.



Theck,
Just getting caught up on this discussion.

Simply given the sheer magnitude of stats on gear, it sounds like this basically means we will be reforging parry or dodge from virtually every piece of gear that HAS dodge or parry, as even the "what's left over" amount will probably still be getting us to the requisite 942 ratings, right?

So the basic rules become something like:
- If it has dodge/parry, reforge whichever one you have more of total (so that you're not absorbing more DR impact on one stat than the other)
- If it has dodge/mastery or parry/mastery, reforge the dodge or parry if it's higher in total (since you can't reforge to mastery if it has mastery already)
- If it has hit/expertise, reforge one of them to mastery (assuming you're willing to trade off threat for survival)
- if it has dodge or parry and hit or expertise, reforge one of them to mastery, based on whether you prefer to give up survival or threat.

Am I missing something here?
Last edited by vexryn on Sat Nov 27, 2010 2:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Reforging/Mastery/Block Cap Compilation Guide (4.0.1)

Postby theckhd » Sat Nov 27, 2010 2:30 pm

vexryn wrote:Simply given the sheer magnitude of stats on gear, it sounds like this basically means we will be reforging parry or dodge from virtually every piece of gear that HAS dodge or parry, as even the "what's left over" amount will probably still be getting us to the requisite 942 ratings, right?

Yup.
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Re: Reforging/Mastery/Block Cap Compilation Guide (4.0.1)

Postby vexryn » Sat Nov 27, 2010 2:42 pm

theckhd wrote:
vexryn wrote:Simply given the sheer magnitude of stats on gear, it sounds like this basically means we will be reforging parry or dodge from virtually every piece of gear that HAS dodge or parry, as even the "what's left over" amount will probably still be getting us to the requisite 942 ratings, right?

Yup.


Awesome, thanks Theck.


Follow-up related question then - what about the relative TTL value of stamina versus mastery (assuming physical attacks)? Which I suppose indirectly becomes a comparison of stamina vs mastery for EH purposes if/when we can stack enough mastery to block cap?
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