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Word of Glory - OP?

SPOILERS Discussion about the Cataclysm Beta SPOILERS

Moderators: Fridmarr, Worldie, Aergis, Sabindeus, PsiVen

Re: Word of Glory - OP?

Postby Rasmfrackn » Mon Nov 22, 2010 4:21 pm

Sabindeus wrote:towellie your videos make me rofl

That was the first one I watched in its entirety, and I whole-heartedly agree. :)
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Re: Word of Glory - OP?

Postby Zhuel » Mon Nov 22, 2010 5:50 pm

Ugh, the video is ok, but I really hate how you make us to to be sooooooo OP. While Ret doesn't have the survivability that Prot does they have access to all the tricks Prot does. In addition they have selfless healer which increases WoG on other by 50% and bumps their damage by 12% if used with 3 holy power. Ret has a bunch of issues, but if the spec for it they could do the same thing you are if not a little better. It's just the mechanic of WoG.
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Re: Word of Glory - OP?

Postby towelliee » Mon Nov 22, 2010 6:04 pm

Right but that survivability that Ret does not have can make or break a team wanting to use an efficient dps healing survival class/spec.
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Re: Word of Glory - OP?

Postby Kelaan » Mon Nov 22, 2010 6:11 pm

Zhuel wrote:Ugh, the video is ok, but I really hate how you make us to to be sooooooo OP.


I didn't get that impression. I think he even said in the intro, "here's some footage of us kicking ass -- we're not going to include the ones where we got thrashed". Moreover, there were two fights where he let his teammate die and then was unable to win. He does talk aggressively, but it sounds more like an announcer than braggadocio.

Ret has Rebuke, which is great, but it's melee range only and has only one target. Avenger's Shield + Grand Crusader procs make it sound like it's a much more generally useful tool for control. On the other hand, you made great points about Ret's utility with Word of Glory. Combine the free-3HP-skill proc and WoG's talent to make it free some of the time, and Ret has some great looking healing potential, even when ranged (since judgement and I think Exorcism both can proc Holy Power gains). The down side is that it's bursty, but then so can its damage be. Still, I liked his general point about having good survivability. Tanks seem like they should do well versus melee.
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Re: Word of Glory - OP?

Postby towelliee » Mon Nov 22, 2010 6:54 pm

I think i said in beginning of the video we suck and lost lol. But we won the next one!
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Re: Word of Glory - OP?

Postby Neptuno » Tue Nov 23, 2010 6:29 am

knaughty wrote:The new tweak to ShoR (reduce scaling with AP) and the justification (to make Vengeance less good) is yet more proof that Blizzard need to goddamn hire someone who studied maths or stats at University. Or buy them a fucking calculator.

The solution to Vengeance being too good is to FIX VENGEANCE not to start tweaking goddamn abilities so that they scale badly with AP. Because if they stuff up AP scaling then we're back to tank threat not scaling right and/or being the massively complicated cluster-fuck that they managed throughout WotLK.


but i want to just expertise cap in t15 and white hit hold threat... "hey raid, brb making popcorn now that boss is lined up" :lol: (that smiley isn't laughing with us unfortunately)
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Re: Word of Glory - OP?

Postby Palisade » Tue Nov 23, 2010 7:30 am

Neptuno wrote:
knaughty wrote:The new tweak to ShoR (reduce scaling with AP) and the justification (to make Vengeance less good) is yet more proof that Blizzard need to goddamn hire someone who studied maths or stats at University. Or buy them a fucking calculator.

The solution to Vengeance being too good is to FIX VENGEANCE not to start tweaking goddamn abilities so that they scale badly with AP. Because if they stuff up AP scaling then we're back to tank threat not scaling right and/or being the massively complicated cluster-fuck that they managed throughout WotLK.


but i want to just expertise cap in t15 and white hit hold threat... "hey raid, brb making popcorn now that boss is lined up" :lol: (that smiley isn't laughing with us unfortunately)


Wasn't it Invis who used to have a signature that read "afk tanking on auto attack" back in BC? 8)
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Re: Word of Glory - OP?

Postby earanduin » Tue Nov 23, 2010 10:21 am

I am surprised that several in the community feel that WoG is OP in prot's hands. We are talking about a heal that heals you for about 15% of your hp every 9sec (if you have something in range to beat on) - idk but that number doesn't seem op to me. Perhaps it's the Eternal Glory proc that makes it feel OP when by chance, you could heal about 30% hp in 2 GCDs.

Also, you are making a choice as to whether tho pressure with damage output, or to assist with heals. In the video the net result was a loss that occurred following a protracted stalemate. A 10min fight duration sounds like things are pretty 'balanced'. Every class brings something different to the table. Just because other tanks can't heal (without changing forms) doesn't mean that the utility they bring in other ways is just as useful and perhaps more (or less) outcome changing. As GC would say, we need a lot more data in a realistic environment in order to support the claim of it being OP.

Anyway, if prot paladins are the most populated class in the top 10 arena teams in each battlegroup, then that would be useful information suggesting that they are indeed op.
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Re: Word of Glory - OP?

Postby Tantrim » Tue Nov 23, 2010 11:27 am

earanduin wrote:Just because other tanks can't heal (without changing forms) doesn't mean that the utility they bring in other ways is just as useful and perhaps more (or less) outcome changing. As GC would say, we need a lot more data in a realistic environment in order to support the claim of it being OP.

There are tanks that cant heal themselves somewhat?
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Re: Word of Glory - OP?

Postby Sabindeus » Tue Nov 23, 2010 11:35 am

Tantrim wrote:
earanduin wrote:Just because other tanks can't heal (without changing forms) doesn't mean that the utility they bring in other ways is just as useful and perhaps more (or less) outcome changing. As GC would say, we need a lot more data in a realistic environment in order to support the claim of it being OP.

There are tanks that cant heal themselves somewhat?


I think he meant "heal other people"
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Re: Word of Glory - OP?

Postby towelliee » Tue Nov 23, 2010 3:37 pm

Here is the second video against the same team, except this time we win...so for all people who gave me the whole "yeah gj healing but you lost"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LrRbUO0oHbU
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Re: Word of Glory - OP?

Postby steadypal » Tue Nov 23, 2010 5:08 pm

hrm wtf did they do to wog? logged in today, and its only healing for 6k, that seems really really on the weak side, how was it at 85 with this nerf?
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Re: Word of Glory - OP?

Postby Neptuno » Tue Nov 23, 2010 11:40 pm

steadypal wrote:hrm wtf did they do to wog? logged in today, and its only healing for 6k, that seems really really on the weak side, how was it at 85 with this nerf?


well, originally in 4.0 it was 60% more with GbtL 2/2. Now it's 10%. So OP is probably standing for Outta Players if this was what was keeping them alive before.
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Re: Word of Glory - OP?

Postby Vrimmel » Wed Nov 24, 2010 5:18 am

Word of glory back to uninteresting useless heal.
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Re: Word of Glory - OP?

Postby quendil » Wed Nov 24, 2010 6:08 am

Hi all, first post from a long time lurker!!!

I just tried WoG while hurting the dummies in SW and it heals something more of 10k (15k when crit).
It's not that bad for a 50k health pool, right? It's about 20% of your health so it could prove useful in an emergency imho.
:)
Not good to invest more than 2 points though (eg: only GbtL and not Eternal Glory)

PS: I wanna thank you all for all the juicy info i've been reading here for about 2 years! \o/
PS2: Avenger's shield has some red hammers judging each mob... is this new?
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