Raid loot ratio?

[Darielle]

So we're also right fucking back to square one, and giving raiding gear to non-raiders. Didn't we learn anything from the last expansion?

I believe they learned that the system worked great at what it was meant to do, which is let a lot more people "experience" ICC even if they didn't get Light of Dawn because of it.

I imagine they'll similarly want ye random personne to "experience" the first freebie wing of Deathwing's Lair even if they don't get the privilege of their face crushed in by a paw that's bigger than their entire raid.

It's not a big deal though. The weekly cap shows they have learned that raiders don't want to feel that it's better to go back and do Heroics for gear, so this cap should allow raiders to get the Points for the cap from pure raiding without doing more than a couple of Heroics whenever they want or maybe even none at all (latter probably tends towards farm mode and by nature 25-man raiders) instead of one per day.

[Sabindeus]

Sorry to butt in here... but Valor Points are from raids... please tell me they won't also be available by doing the daily heroic?

They will, just like EoF were available from the daily heroic in WotLK.

This makes me grumble. I thought Blizzard established that they wanted to get people AWAY from having to do the daily heroic grind.

Edit: So we're also right fucking back to square one, and giving raiding gear to non-raiders. Didn't we learn anything from the last expansion?

As someone above said, the point income will be capped so in theory if you're doing enough raiding you don't need to do the daily heroic to hit your VP cap.

And I don't think Blizzard ever agreed that giving raid gear to nonraiders was a bad idea.

[Nikachelle]

But then why bother making the change so that heroics drop blues and raids drop epics? There's no difference when the end product is the same as what they did in Wrath.

[Sabindeus]

But then why bother making the change so that heroics drop blues and raids drop epics? There's no difference when the end product is the same as what they did in Wrath.

What change? Heroics have dropped blues since BC...

[Malthrax]

Is it already time for "that argument" again?

[Sabindeus]

Is it already time for "that argument" again?

no

[KysenMurrin]

They've also gone back to not giving full tier sets for points. Some pieces require only points, some requires points and a raid-drop token.

[Nikachelle]

But then why bother making the change so that heroics drop blues and raids drop epics? There's no difference when the end product is the same as what they did in Wrath.

What change? Heroics have dropped blues since BC...

My understanding was that all epics were being removed from heroics. Perhaps I'm wrong?

Edit: And that the points you got from heroics (the normal ones, not the valor ones) could only buy you blues.

[Sabindeus]

But then why bother making the change so that heroics drop blues and raids drop epics? There's no difference when the end product is the same as what they did in Wrath.

What change? Heroics have dropped blues since BC...

My understanding was that all epics were being removed from heroics. Perhaps I'm wrong?

Edit: And that the points you got from heroics (the normal ones, not the valor ones) could only buy you blues.

I guess the last bosses of heroics used to drop epics. I don't think they do anymore. The other difference is that heroics used to drop blues of the same ilvl as the entry level raid (i.e. WotLK heroics ilvl 200 blues, Naxx10 ilvl 200 epics), and now the raids drop epics 1 tier higher than the heroics. (346 blue vs 359 epic)

Yes justice points (drop from heroic bosses) buy you blues.

I guess I don't see what you're saying. I think you inferred different goals from reading about certain changes than actually were Blizz's intentions in implementing them.

[Malthrax]

But then why bother making the change so that heroics drop blues and raids drop epics? There's no difference when the end product is the same as what they did in Wrath.

What change? Heroics have dropped blues since BC...

My understanding was that all epics were being removed from heroics. Perhaps I'm wrong?

Edit: And that the points you got from heroics (the normal ones, not the valor ones) could only buy you blues.

AFAIK:

JUSTICE points can be used to buy BLUES @L85, and VALOR points can be used to buy BURPLEZ @L85

Justice points are awarded for normal mode 5-man boss kills, heroic mode 5-man boss kills, and the "daily normal" bonus. There is no cap on the number of Justice Points you can earn in a week, but there is a 4000 point accumulation cap. (similar mechanic to legacy PVP honor points - no earning limit, 75k point cap)

Valor points are awarded for 10-man raid boss kills, 25-man raid boss kills, and the "daily heroic" bonus. There is a cap on the number of Valor Points you can earn in a week, but there is not cap on the number of Valor Points you can amass on your toon. ( similar mechanic to legacy Arena points - weekly earning limit, no point cap )


edit: That's for Tier-11. Once Tier-12 is released, you'll be able to buy Tier-11 goods & services (e.g. epix) with Justice Points, and Tier-12 goods & services with Valor points. So, in that way, yes its exactly the same as it was in WotLK. You will always have the option of "grind heroics --> last tier's gears".

[Nikachelle]

So what's the weekly cap for Valor points?

My impression of what Blizzard's changes were going to be pretty identical to what has happened. The only part I wasn't expecting was to have to run daily heroics every day for the extra valor points.

[Malthrax]

So what's the weekly cap for Valor points?

My impression of what Blizzard's changes were going to be pretty identical to what has happened. The only part I wasn't expecting was to have to run daily heroics every day for the extra valor points.

I don't know the exact number. I do recall seeing a blue post that alluded to "if you do 25's, you won't need to run the daily heroic to cap out, but if you run 10's you may", however as I recall no hard numbers were quoted.

[Nikachelle]

So what's the weekly cap for Valor points?

My impression of what Blizzard's changes were going to be pretty identical to what has happened. The only part I wasn't expecting was to have to run daily heroics every day for the extra valor points.

I don't know the exact number. I do recall seeing a blue post that alluded to "if you do 25's, you won't need to run the daily heroic to cap out, but if you run 10's you may", however as I recall no hard numbers were quoted.

The only thing that's weird about all this, as someone indicated about, is that when you're first starting a raid, you certainly aren't farming it, and you're not amassing you're total available points per week. That right there necessitates running the daily heroic.

I guess, for me, I was looking forward to not having to do that every single day all over again.

[Darielle]

The only thing that's weird about all this, as someone indicated about, is that when you're first starting a raid, you certainly aren't farming it, and you're not amassing you're total available points per week. That right there necessitates running the daily heroic.

Not that it matters, but depending on implementation ....
consider that the first few bosses on normal mode are typically "easy".

[Belloc]

So what's the weekly cap for Valor points?

My impression of what Blizzard's changes were going to be pretty identical to what has happened. The only part I wasn't expecting was to have to run daily heroics every day for the extra valor points.

I don't know the exact number. I do recall seeing a blue post that alluded to "if you do 25's, you won't need to run the daily heroic to cap out, but if you run 10's you may", however as I recall no hard numbers were quoted.

The only thing that's weird about all this, as someone indicated about, is that when you're first starting a raid, you certainly aren't farming it, and you're not amassing you're total available points per week. That right there necessitates running the daily heroic.

I guess, for me, I was looking forward to not having to do that every single day all over again.

You don't have to. Just because there's a cap doesn't mean you have to hit it. If you're not in a hardcore end-game guild, you don't have an obligation to farm points if it's not fun for you. Hell, even if you were in a top guild, you still wouldn't have to.



Side note: I think that the point awards cycle with every tier... meaning, when we hit the 2nd tier of raids, valor point items will become justice point items.