Is this normal?

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Is this normal?

Postby VikrumthePally » Mon Nov 15, 2010 10:43 am

I know this has been talked to death but I still haven't read anything that answers my question. I have been on the site now for a good 30 minutes or so looking for clarification. So I thought I'd just make a post.

I too am returning from a long break. I tanked a lot pre 4.0 and never had threat issues. I am now back, with a new guild that has Bane of the Fallen King, and last night we did a normal ICC run to get me the KS title.

Now we have a druid and mage that were capable of 15-17k dps on some fights. However for the majority of fights I was usually 3rd or 4th on threat behind the druid tank (in mostly cat gear), the balance druid and some mages. Imo I just looked terribad all night long.

I am fairly confident in my playing ability and was doing a pretty good job with the rotation. Here are my questions:

1. Are Paladin tanks struggling with threat in general right now? I am in mostly 255 gear, and using Wrist Chopper (http://www.wowhead.com/item=50290/falrics-wrist-chopper) with accuracy.

2. Please tell me that weapon is my main problem. It seems 4.0 Paladins need slower weapons or am I just off?

3. Is Righteous Fury broken? Is this (my threat issues) largely in part to Vengeance being borked atm?

Thanks for any feedback. Normally a decent player I am just really in shock of how bad my threat was last night.
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Re: Is this normal?

Postby Chasey » Mon Nov 15, 2010 11:41 pm

Well, threat isn't an issue. It takes a bit to ramp up. If the DPS outgear you great will be a problem at first. If you have tricks/MD you should be fine or tell the nub DPS to give you a second.
Not a weapon problem but a gear problem in general. Just get the best weapon you can and stay hit capped and exp soft capped.
Vengeance sucks. If you aren't getting hit its worthless. Look at it like this if the druid is in kitty gear, he is set up to do damage thus causing threat. He has vengeance stacked and does more damage. If you are DPS'n at this point do your best for threat. Depending on the fight if the druid is ok on threat and there is no switch needed you are ok. RF is not broken.

Threat will changed if you are getting hit and you have a SotR crit for about 30k...no one will catch you EVAR! :D
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Re: Is this normal?

Postby Discus » Tue Nov 16, 2010 10:14 am

I'm in similar gear my record ShoRt crit (3 HP) after the patch is 24k, 20k is not unusual. My threat seems to have increased since patch if anything... where I've run with dps that greatly outgear me Elixir of mighty strength and Dragonfin Filet help, I also swap in dps trinket and use Darkmoon Greatness, plus use the same weapon as you with same enchant.
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Re: Is this normal?

Postby VikrumthePally » Tue Nov 16, 2010 10:31 am

Thanks for replying!

Well I do in fact believe a lot of it was due to the Balance Druid unloading right off the bat. So for instance on LK right before combat would start I would salv the Druid, wings, HC Exo, AS, Judge, before he'd even be in melee range. I noticed I really didn't lose threat by doing this. I am starting to think it's more the Balance Druid + Vengeance.

If Vengeance is supposed to be apart of our threat and it's taking a long time to ramp up it's pretty common sense that if you have a DPS'er doing 17k single target they are going to peel. However with Cata and DP giving 3 HP starting a boss off with SHotR should solve this issue pretty easily.

Question I plan to try out Towelliee's HDH build. Does anyone know how much threat using WoG when you are at 3 HP insteand of SHotR gives? Of course this is only if I do not have a Sacred Duty proc in which case I would use the Shield.

Thanks!
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Re: Is this normal?

Postby Vrimmel » Tue Nov 16, 2010 11:00 pm

Saying that threat isn't an issue is actually a bit of a misrepresentation. Threat isn't an issue on a fight where the boss hits you constantly during the fight. If you are offtanking or have periods of not being hit it easily becomes an issue.

Prot palas also have pretty bad snap aggro at the moment. If I've tanked in pugs with druids they often hold the boss for the first few second until I either get an avenger's shield crit or 3p shotr unless they build up enough vengeance.
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Re: Is this normal?

Postby Braundo » Wed Nov 17, 2010 7:58 am

We definitely have more ramp-up time than we used to, though that should hopefully be alleviated a little once we get our modified Divine Plea for an immediate 3HP ShoR. If your DPS is going all-out from the moment you pull and they seriously outgear you, I'm not surprised at all that they pull off you relatively easily.
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Re: Is this normal?

Postby Arcand » Wed Nov 17, 2010 9:07 am

Braundo wrote:If your DPS is going all-out from the moment you pull


...and for the last year and a half, they've been able to do exactly that with no real consequences. :(
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Re: Is this normal?

Postby VikrumthePally » Wed Nov 17, 2010 9:30 am

Braundo wrote:We definitely have more ramp-up time than we used to, though that should hopefully be alleviated a little once we get our modified Divine Plea for an immediate 3HP ShoR. If your DPS is going all-out from the moment you pull and they seriously outgear you, I'm not surprised at all that they pull off you relatively easily.


Well they are in mostly 10H ICC gear where as I have zero H-ICC gear. My average iLvl is 255. I think my biggest problem was this was the first time I had really tanked with this level of dps, and the first raid I've tanked since February.

I appreciate the info.

Still interested in anyone's thoughts on the WoG build. Specifically as it relates to threat.

Thanks.
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Re: Is this normal?

Postby Braundo » Wed Nov 17, 2010 10:47 am

I don't have a link to the post off-hand, but I seem to recall Theck saying that a typical WoG (I forget whether it's with or without talents) generates roughly 1/3 of the threat of a 3-point (non-crit?) ShoR. Keep in mind that that's AoE threat as opposed to single-target threat, though.
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