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Block-capping, unfortunate future.

SPOILERS Discussion about the Cataclysm Beta SPOILERS

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Re: Block-capping, unfortunate future.

Postby Palisade » Mon Nov 15, 2010 8:13 am

Klaudandus wrote:Specially when blocking does squat for magical damage.


Well, dodge & parry don't either
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Re: Block-capping, unfortunate future.

Postby Klaudandus » Mon Nov 15, 2010 9:26 am

Yeah, but the point still stands. With the way the new fights are supposed to be designed, block capping is not a requirement and in fact, it will prolly be detrimental, specially if you completely forgo stamina just to eke out more block.

Yes, changing parry or dodge to mastery will work, enchanting for mastery over stam or gemming for mastery over stam most likely not.
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Re: Block-capping, unfortunate future.

Postby Fridmarr » Mon Nov 15, 2010 9:29 am

Klaudandus wrote:Yeah, but the point still stands. With the way the new fights are supposed to be designed, block capping is not a requirement and in fact, it will prolly be detrimental, specially if you completely forgo stamina just to eke out more block.

Yes, changing parry or dodge to mastery will work, enchanting for mastery over stam or gemming for mastery over stam most likely not.

Well we'll have to see what the numbers look like, but it's quite possible with a model where it takes at least 3 hits to take down your health, and healer mana matters, that avoidance is the best option.
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Re: Block-capping, unfortunate future.

Postby Klaudandus » Mon Nov 15, 2010 9:31 am

Well, yes. Striking for a balance is one thing, going out of your way to reach block cap is another.
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Re: Block-capping, unfortunate future.

Postby Dantriges » Mon Nov 15, 2010 10:01 am

If we don´t know what exactly we can give up or have to for block cap, it´s like reading tea leaves. I wouldn´t underestimate block capping, it´s like having a 41% Physical Damage cd up 100% of the time. Below cap you can´t calculate with it. If the healers go into overdrive as soon as you get unblocked and blow away their mana it could be feasible to have it all the time just to minimize the damage spikes. IIRC they also increased health from stamina ratio recently so it could be that stacking stamina is the wrong way to go anyways. Towelie had a healthpol close to 200k, boss hit´s didn´t increase in the same way.
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Re: Block-capping, unfortunate future.

Postby Arincia » Mon Nov 15, 2010 12:49 pm

Well so long as a piece of gear doesn't have mastery reforging the highest stat to mastery would always be less healing required and less mana used by healers. As long as the ratio of avoidance given up to block gained wasn't below 1:2.5 then its a gain on less healing required till you reach block cap. But just from what i've seen on normal videos there are plenty of times we will taking repeated unblockable damage on raid bosses. IMO there is only 2 scenarios that block capping would worth the hp loss.
1) a purely physical damage taken. This could be tanking multiple adds or a fight like festergut where the difference block cap and not means the possibility of a gib or making it trivial.
2) The hp loss is easily overcome by saving healers enough mana (after burst healing included) that it is much more easier to kill the raid boss via another dps to kill the boss faster or more mana to keep the raid up.

In practice i see it just coming down to a trinket swap based on boss mechanics and type of tanking required. Mastery/avoidence trinkets if extending out healers mana matters, Hp/resistance trinkets if lots of unmitigated damage will occur frenquently, DPS trinkets if threat is more important. Also as far gemming it may depend on the type of bonus but using hybrid gems may be a lot more common as well.
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Re: Block-capping, unfortunate future.

Postby Xequecal » Mon Nov 15, 2010 3:14 pm

Mastery, as currently implemented for Paladins, is simply straight-up better than avoidance. A given amount of mastery rating decreases average damage taken by more than the same amount of avoidance rating and decreases spike damage by more than avoidance. By block capping, it is also possible to increase EH through mastery, but the first two are enough to make it better than avoidance in all circumstances. Even if you don't block cap, you still want to stack mastery. You don't want to give up stamina for mastery, but I accepted that from the beginning, my list gives up no stamina for the mastery provided.

Since all items in a tier have exactly the same amount of itemization value in their secondary stats, the only decision you ever have to make is whether you want threat stat/mastery or avoidance/mastery on your item.
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Re: Block-capping, unfortunate future.

Postby Noradin » Tue Nov 16, 2010 4:00 am

So basically its the same as with hit and say crit. Until we reach the cap its our best "avoidance stat" (yes you avoid only 30%(40%) but it feels more like avoidance than like mitigation as it has the same limitations (stun etc.)) above that we will try to avoid it.
Just like with hit and crit we will seldom want to sacrifice stamina for it.
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