Japanese Hologram Idol Singer

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Japanese Hologram Idol Singer

Postby Dianora » Thu Nov 11, 2010 10:02 pm

And I thought Sharon Apple of Macross Plus occurs at 2032 and requires ancient alien technology. But apparently that's not fast enough for Japan. So, not only did they have a idol singer in a box program, they went ahead and package it using hologram and play it in a concert. Here's a clip.
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Re: Japanese Hologram Idol Singer

Postby Lightbeard » Thu Nov 11, 2010 10:17 pm

For christs sake Japan wait for the rest of the world to catch up.
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Re: Japanese Hologram Idol Singer

Postby mew » Fri Nov 12, 2010 12:33 am

Welcome to a few months ago.

Edit: While I'm not a fan of vocaloids, I am completely fascinated by this whole concept. The technology behind the hologram concerts is pretty awesome and the Sharon Apple-ness is amusing. But in the end it's just another otaku/weeaboo fad that is cool because it's "loli" and from Japan.
Last edited by mew on Fri Nov 12, 2010 12:45 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Japanese Hologram Idol Singer

Postby Passionario » Fri Nov 12, 2010 12:40 am

Hello, NG Resonance.
If you are not the flame, you're the fuel.
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Re: Japanese Hologram Idol Singer

Postby fudomyou » Fri Nov 12, 2010 1:16 am

Two things: First, Sharon Apple and Macross Plus are 2039-2040. (I only know this because I just watched the Macross F movie on Blu-Ray and it provides explicit dates. Sooooooo pretty)

Second, this doesn't have the feel of a passing fad. Listen to megpoid singing Hamasaki Ayumi (links below). The vocaloid is actually better than the original singer - though admittedly, Hamasaki Ayumi is a super-low bar. Look at the outpouring of vocaloid music written by people with access to a couple of hundred dollar programs and nothing more. This whole thing has been a watershed for home producers to get their music out there at minimal cost, and some pretty good talents like Supercell have emerged from the scene.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=reAXfmPyvwc
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Re: Japanese Hologram Idol Singer

Postby Rachmaninoff » Fri Nov 12, 2010 8:54 am

fudomyou wrote:The vocaloid is actually better than the original singer - though admittedly, Hamasaki Ayumi is a super-low bar. Look at the outpouring of vocaloid music written by people with access to a couple of hundred dollar programs and nothing more.

auto tune is the death of musical talent. and I'm not just talking about vocals. you can do any instrument and harmonize the same line. its sad really.
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Re: Japanese Hologram Idol Singer

Postby Snake-Aes » Fri Nov 12, 2010 9:40 am

Rachmaninoff wrote:
fudomyou wrote:The vocaloid is actually better than the original singer - though admittedly, Hamasaki Ayumi is a super-low bar. Look at the outpouring of vocaloid music written by people with access to a couple of hundred dollar programs and nothing more.

auto tune is the death of musical talent. and I'm not just talking about vocals. you can do any instrument and harmonize the same line. its sad really.

Why is it sad? If such music is better made with the software than the players, then you're definitely getting better music as far as musical quality/preference goes.
The loss comes mostly in the form of the lack of a real entity to hold yourself to, which is already been worked around as this vocaloid showed.

"it is not the same thing": Well, duh of course not. Most people will adapt to that rather quickly once software-made music legitimately overthrows first-hand music.

What you see there is the same thing that pissed Ned Ludd off: Machine replacing human. If it is actually better...why not?
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Re: Japanese Hologram Idol Singer

Postby fuzzygeek » Fri Nov 12, 2010 9:56 am

Didn't Gorillaz do something similar a few years ago at some awards show?

Also, I imagine you could make an argument about artificial "artistry" not really being "art," but that sets of my poseur alarm-o-meter pretty damn quickly.
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Re: Japanese Hologram Idol Singer

Postby Snake-Aes » Fri Nov 12, 2010 9:58 am

I like the Luddite comparison a lot because that's really what it is... Something man-made making things better than their man-made counterparts. Some people get hosed, others don't, we adapt as usual.
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Re: Japanese Hologram Idol Singer

Postby Dianora » Fri Nov 12, 2010 10:27 am

Snake-Aes wrote:
Rachmaninoff wrote:
fudomyou wrote:The vocaloid is actually better than the original singer - though admittedly, Hamasaki Ayumi is a super-low bar. Look at the outpouring of vocaloid music written by people with access to a couple of hundred dollar programs and nothing more.

auto tune is the death of musical talent. and I'm not just talking about vocals. you can do any instrument and harmonize the same line. its sad really.

Why is it sad? If such music is better made with the software than the players, then you're definitely getting better music as far as musical quality/preference goes.
The loss comes mostly in the form of the lack of a real entity to hold yourself to, which is already been worked around as this vocaloid showed.

"it is not the same thing": Well, duh of course not. Most people will adapt to that rather quickly once software-made music legitimately overthrows first-hand music.

What you see there is the same thing that pissed Ned Ludd off: Machine replacing human. If it is actually better...why not?


I think of the autotune mainly as a cost saving measure. Studio time is expensive, and the producers are under pressure to get quality stuff turn out for less time and less expense. Right now, they don't have to take 50 takes of the same singing to get it right. They'll just go with far far less take, with the tools to correct everything that isn't right.
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Re: Japanese Hologram Idol Singer

Postby Snake-Aes » Fri Nov 12, 2010 10:37 am

Agreed, cost will always be a part of it. ProTools has been cutting studio time significantly on its own so it's no revolution. But I would rather not label that as good or bad.
One of the things I liked most in that tech is the Community level of involvement, akin to open source development. A good composer doesn't need a patron to build with them if he's willing to stick to a couple select voices. It does have the shudder-worthy consequence of increasing the participation of emo-angsting teenagers in the music world... At least in the previous condition you just had to avoid the right bands :p
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Re: Japanese Hologram Idol Singer

Postby mew » Fri Nov 12, 2010 10:41 am

My problem with it is the focus on the characters rather than the composers.
The characters aren't doing anything, but yet people are all "omg I love Miku!". Even the hype behind Sharon Apple was that it was supposed to be a robot that completely made its own music and performances and (SPOILERS) if anyone discovered that it wasn't then it wouldn't be popular anymore.

So in my opinion, I think the software will definitely live on and improve, but the vocaloids/idols themselves that are so popular will be forgotten by their fanbase in a few years time.


Also the vocaloid sound isn't appealing to everyone. Maybe I am the minority on this, but I don't like the weird twang (I don't know how to describe it, I'm not good with adjectives) they have in their voices. You don't get that with regular autotune in pop music and such.
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Re: Japanese Hologram Idol Singer

Postby Dianora » Fri Nov 12, 2010 10:46 am

Snake-Aes wrote:Agreed, cost will always be a part of it. ProTools has been cutting studio time significantly on its own so it's no revolution. But I would rather not label that as good or bad.
One of the things I liked most in that tech is the Community level of involvement, akin to open source development. A good composer doesn't need a patron to build with them if he's willing to stick to a couple select voices. It does have the shudder-worthy consequence of increasing the participation of emo-angsting teenagers in the music world... At least in the previous condition you just had to avoid the right bands :p


Another plus, no more idol singer scandal. Why is it that these 20 year old idol singer are always shacked up with creepy 50 year old game designer? :)
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Re: Japanese Hologram Idol Singer

Postby Snake-Aes » Fri Nov 12, 2010 10:46 am

I think that's called Fetishism. Icons will just keep appearing and disappearing.
I'm with you on how I like the vocaloids singing (i.e.: I don't like it). Improvements will come for as long as it's commercial, and what they can do right now is impressive compared to just about everything before. I recall an Asimov pocket book with a story that was pretty much what happened here. It's about composers in a world where composers produce all their music from software like our eponymous. A couple guys from "the old times" feel the impact of that change and the story develops both the adaptation of those and the protagonist burning his research that ended in a software that could legitimately compose by itself, removing the human component entirely.
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Re: Japanese Hologram Idol Singer

Postby Sabindeus » Fri Nov 12, 2010 10:52 am

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