Judgement of the Just stacking with Thunderfury effect?

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Re: Judgement of the Just stacking with Thunderfury effect?

Postby Sabindeus » Mon Nov 08, 2010 4:02 pm

um, just curious, did UnitAttackSpeed("target") stop working at some point? I may be behind the times.
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Re: Judgement of the Just stacking with Thunderfury effect?

Postby theckhd » Mon Nov 08, 2010 4:30 pm

Not that I'm aware of. I just didn't happen to have a macro with it handy last night.
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Re: Judgement of the Just stacking with Thunderfury effect?

Postby Zephyr » Mon Nov 08, 2010 6:32 pm

I decided to try and test some rotations with and without thunderfury to try and estimate how large a threatloss it would be to use thunderfury for raiding.

The results i recived was that the damage contribution from most abilities was similar. But only the damage contributed by melee, seal of truth, HotR and thunderfury proc, varied conciderably. This is consistant with Theckhd's formulas for ability damage since those are the abilities that vary on weapon dmg.

Melee, SoT and HotR contributed by a dpsloss of about 150 dps, and the proc only did 55 dps. Concidering that this difference in dps is mainly due to the difference base weapon damage. With vengence stacks thunderfury should preform better because of it's fairly slow attack speed compared to other weapons.

Through it would be nice if Theckhd included thunderfury in his next weapon calculation for a more accurate estimate. The proc could for starters be modeled as a flat 55 dps, based on the 11 min parse, where i only omnited abilities that I tested wouldn't be able to proc TF.


Unfortionatly i forgot to activate my log :( so i only have screenshots of the recount results of each test

The tests was made on a heroic dummy with a SotR>J>HotR/CS rotation, with the others omnitted due to mana issues. And repeated for 70 SotRs

My set with thunderfury/Sorthalis had:
AP: 3432/3520
SP: 961/985
Hit: 5,72
Exp: 32/36
1.9/1.6 speed

HotRwithoutTF.jpg
HotR rotation with Sorthalis
HotRwithoutTF.jpg (87.94 KiB) Viewed 1775 times

HotRwithTF.jpg
HotR rotation with Thunderfury
HotRwithTF.jpg (89.89 KiB) Viewed 1775 times

CSwithoutTF.jpg
CS rotation with Sorthalis
CSwithoutTF.jpg (90.77 KiB) Viewed 1775 times


I didn't finish a CS with TF parse since even early on it showed very bad dps ~1600

I made a calculation to reason for the difference between TF dmg and Sorthalis dmg by normalising the percentages based on dps. To see wether the difference lied in the weapon stats or weapon damage
Code: Select all
        TF dmg%  Expect%  diff%   dps(abs)
SotR:     34,4     34,4   
HotR:     24,4     25,8   -1,4    -24
Censure   13,0     13,0   
JoT       12,2     12,5   -0,3    - 5
Melee      8,2     13,1   -4,9    -84
SoT        4,5      6,6   -2,1    -36
TF         3,2      0,0    3,2    +55
Net                       -5,5    -94


(I appologize that my reasoning and math is abit incohesive at times, i usually dont publish any of it)

BTW: I tested out that macro, and on the boss dummy i got
2.000 without anything
2.400 with just judgement of the just
2.400 with just thunderfury proc
2.880 with both
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Re: Judgement of the Just stacking with Thunderfury effect?

Postby baleogthefierce » Wed Nov 10, 2010 11:17 am

The only place I would use this is tanking Shambling Horrors on H LK since the amount of damage you deal to them is inconsequential as long as you are able to maintain threat.
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Re: Judgement of the Just stacking with Thunderfury effect?

Postby theckhd » Wed Nov 10, 2010 9:37 pm

baleogthefierce wrote:The only place I would use this is tanking Shambling Horrors on H LK since the amount of damage you deal to them is inconsequential as long as you are able to maintain threat.


I think that's too limited in scope. It was a great help while working on Herald of the Titans.
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Re: Judgement of the Just stacking with Thunderfury effect?

Postby Zephyr » Thu Nov 11, 2010 12:48 am

Personally I swapped back and forth between thunderfury and my normal tank weapon on LK and other ICC fights, and i had a really hard time noticing the difference in dps between those 2. But a damage intake reduction of up to 17% was really noticable especially when going with a low amount of healers.
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Re: Judgement of the Just stacking with Thunderfury effect?

Postby baleogthefierce » Fri Nov 12, 2010 6:36 am

theckhd wrote:
baleogthefierce wrote:The only place I would use this is tanking Shambling Horrors on H LK since the amount of damage you deal to them is inconsequential as long as you are able to maintain threat.


I think that's too limited in scope. It was a great help while working on Herald of the Titans.


Admittedly I haven't done a Herald run since pre-4.0.1. Is the damage intake that much more terrible without BV mitigating most/all of his OH swings?
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Re: Judgement of the Just stacking with Thunderfury effect?

Postby theckhd » Fri Nov 12, 2010 7:45 am

baleogthefierce wrote:Admittedly I haven't done a Herald run since pre-4.0.1. Is the damage intake that much more terrible without BV mitigating most/all of his OH swings?

Yes, remember that he's using a new armor formula now too.

If my memory is correct, MH swings are between 9-13k usually, OH swings are around 4-6k. And you can't feasibly reach block cap in 226/232 gear.
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Re: Judgement of the Just stacking with Thunderfury effect?

Postby Awyndel » Tue Nov 23, 2010 11:12 am

For herald. Algalon does do a bit more damage. But it's still very healable.

Keep in mind, with good healers, the only time you are going to drop low is when the raid takes damage, because healers will be stretched. So just use those cd's when there is a smash, or after a star explodes. Or use DG when 2 things happen at once, to assist the healers. Also WoG can be a great help in between 2 heals.

Overall it's still a pretty easy achievement, if you have 3 good geared healers who know what they are doing.
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Re: Judgement of the Just stacking with Thunderfury effect?

Postby Alandrek » Sun Nov 28, 2010 1:31 am

This appears to have been fixed in 4.0.3a.

- The melee slow debuffs are once again overriding each other.
- Judging a mob that already had the TF slow had no noticeable impact on its swing speed.
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Re: Judgement of the Just stacking with Thunderfury effect?

Postby Kelaan » Mon Nov 29, 2010 10:54 am

Aww, damn. :D It was good while it lasted.

I wonder, does HotR proc it on multiple targets?
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Re: Judgement of the Just stacking with Thunderfury effect?

Postby Sandrudiga » Mon Dec 06, 2010 4:29 pm

Confirmed via a duel, no longer stacking. Sadly, it was having a nice effect on LK.
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